Author Topic: New Project Mill Engine  (Read 5662 times)

Offline scc

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New Project Mill Engine
« on: March 04, 2018, 07:30:26 PM »
Having finished my 4" Burrell and had some feedback from some of you (thanks) re my new project thread, I have decided to follow in Willy's footsteps and make a simple single cylinder slide valve engine. Freelance of course  :)
I intend to buy a 10" cast iron flywheel from RDG and a lump of cast iron for the cylinder. I think I have enough steel, brass etc. for most of the rest.  A copy of Mr Harris's book will provide porting details and the old mill engine at work should help with construction details.
For now I'm sorting out the shed, machines and bits of tooling before I get started, and will post when underway.

Terry

Online crueby

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2018, 07:32:40 PM »
Thats a nice classic mill engine to base the model on, some nice details to it.


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2018, 07:53:27 PM »
That will make for a nice model Terry, and you are fortunate to have a full size one to measure from. One of these days I hope to do the same with the Lydell mill engine our old engine club has over at the park close by.

Bill

Offline mal webber

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2018, 09:42:23 PM »
Look forward  to following along on your next build Terry,

Mal

Offline Ramon

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2018, 08:43:17 AM »
Good luck with your new project Terry  :ThumbsUp:

Can't do better than to have a full size subject at hand  ;)

I'll look forwards to your progress in coming days

Tug
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Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2018, 09:01:14 AM »
Cheers Gents,  It will be a week or three before I get started.       Terry

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2018, 05:49:54 PM »
I had a spare moment at work so started taking a closer look at "my" prototype. It seems to have a strange coupling at the valve rod / eccentric rod joint. Never seen one like this :thinking:  methinks some dismantling will be needed.
            Terry

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2018, 06:48:26 PM »
Given the rusty condition, good luck with the dismantling :). I would guess that the wedge thingy is there to adjust for wear in the clevis pin over time to keep things from knocking, but I agree, it isn't the normal thing one sees on such joints.

Bill

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2018, 08:15:32 PM »
Yeah, that is not the normal double-wedge arrangement. I bet SteamGuyWilly has a diagram for this in one of his books though!

Offline Jasonb

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2018, 08:17:39 PM »
It would also be interesting to know what it is made of as it seems to have escaped the rust bug?

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 08:18:51 PM »
Have you looked at it from the underside of the assembly, can you see any more of the innards from that angle?

Offline ShopShoe

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2018, 12:53:57 PM »
"I would guess that the wedge thingy is there to adjust for wear in the clevis pin over time to keep things from knocking, but I agree, it isn't the normal thing one sees on such joints."

I would also guess the same. Perhaps there was some knocking and the owner decided there was enough room to add the wedge arrangement as a fix.

I await the "autopsy" for more information.

ShopShoe

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2018, 07:00:06 PM »
Had a closer look today.  The "wedgy" thing is a brass block shaped to press against the outer part of the eye  end of the valve rod :o
Tightened with a wedge it looks a bigger job than replacing the clevis pin!  The valve rod itself has extra support on the form of a bushed cast bracket...an afterthought?     I don't think yon wedgy will appear on my model, what do you think?

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2018, 07:06:05 PM »
Wow - thats an oddball piece! Could there be a problem with the end of the clevis that needed some extra support, a crack maybe? Quite a lot of work went into that part.

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2018, 11:32:14 PM »
Hi Terry, wow ...good oportunity to copy an original... i guess the brass bit was made up as they needed the engine to be working constantly , and could not afford to have any 'down time' . Is there a name plate on it ? Also the lubricator looks like it has been tacked on at a later date. The dismantling should be fairly easy as all the bolts on the 200 years old Beeleigh are coming out really easily although that engine has been standing outside in the elements since 1875 and is really rusty.  Good luck with this project...
The end of the cylinder seems to have an end cap that seems to suggest a tandem engine.
Willy..
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 11:39:34 PM by steam guy willy »

Offline Jasonb

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2018, 07:35:20 AM »
As the ring on the end of the valve rod is not sitting concentric to the ends of the clevis it does look like the wedge is just there to take up slack.

The guide for the valve rod you see on quite a few engines so quite probably original, they come in several forms but all do the same job of stopping and thrust from the eccentric pushing the valve rod sideways.

Cap on the end could also suggest the piston had a tail rod at some time or was a common casting used on other engines, or more likely same casting used either end of this ones cylinder.

Offline john mills

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2018, 09:33:18 AM »
I don't see any thing unusuall  the full size werner ammonia compressor i will be running tomorrow and following 2 days has a similar arrangement on the driving steam engine side but the small end of the wedge is at the top and is threaded so the nut sits on conical shaped spacer.
may be the original has been replaced with a simper plain wedge upside down so it cannot fallout.

Offline john mills

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2018, 09:59:19 AM »
looks like it is up side down the nick at the edge on the werner it is an oil hole on the top the block is flush with
the rest of the forked vale rod fitting.

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2018, 11:55:15 PM »
I'm leaning toward "make do" maintenance, sort of like nails for cotterpins?
Craig

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2018, 04:10:32 PM »
I must admit I had decided that it was "bodgit" engineering ::) Today I visited a friend who is an authority on steam and a highly respected, experienced engineer. He was surprised that I was querying the arrangement and said it was very common, but more usual on water pump rods. He even showed  me such an arrangement on an Aveling roller that was in the shop!   I still think it unlikely that I will put in on the model.

Terry

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2018, 03:59:49 PM »
Flywheel casting arrived today....I've seen better. I think a lot of fondling...sorry Fettling will be required on this when I eventually get started.

Offline 10KPete

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2018, 04:06:54 PM »
That fly wheel looks like it bounced off the reject bin....

Pete
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Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2018, 04:13:56 PM »
Quite :(

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2018, 04:34:38 PM »
As long as it's good on the inside (no voids, etc.) there could still be quite a nice flywheel hiding within. Don't give up on it too soon.

Bill

Offline Jasonb

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2018, 04:41:20 PM »
For the price they charge for them the RDG flywheels are very good value for money, I usually try to pick out the best of the bunch from a show where you can look through each one and decide what is the best. Also if you are not into bling then a painted flywheel rim and separate bright pully is quiet acceptable.

They do finish up quite nicely when you get a good one


Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2018, 07:34:02 PM »
All very encouraging....thanks Guys

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2018, 10:49:45 AM »
I have started to tidy up the flywheel, it only just fits on the lathe!  also made a start on the slide bars. I'm just trickling along doing a bit when the mood takes me ::)     Quite busy on other things at present........Two family house moves for a start..at least I'm not expected to carry furniture  anymore :old:

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2018, 09:56:09 PM »
More progress on the slidebars... made one of the top ones, a pleasant little milling job. Hopefully may find the time for the other one this weekend.  When I made the lower bars I was still in "traction engine" mode. I machined the crosshead "run-outs" full width :facepalm: They should in fact act as oil reservoirs with closed sides. I may remake  :thinking:............unlikely              Terry

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2018, 05:33:04 PM »
Just a piccy of the 2nd slidebar being milled, all straightforward.     But I'm having trouble with the flywheel...Lowest back gear speed, minimum tool overhang and tailstock support. I am getting a very rough "chatter" finish.  I suspect that the old Atlas is on it's limits and I need to use the big lathe at work.    Apologies for poor pics.      Terry

Offline Jasonb

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2018, 06:30:36 PM »
The spokes are quite spindly on that 10" Clarkson flywheel so the rim is likely flexing, can you get it onto a faceplate ? Probably need a ply or MDF disc to take it out to size

Offline Ian S C

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2018, 03:21:08 AM »
can you open the jaws of your chuck inside the rim, and do the outside and a face that way, 4 jaw would be best, but three jaw with some packing to get it to run concentric is ok.. Then it's a case of how slow you can go.
Ian S C

Offline Zephyrin

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2018, 09:04:55 AM »
the holding position is much too distant from the working point, chatter and noise are the rule.
You have to hold the flywheel by the rim...to turn the rim !
as said above, on a faceplate or a large mandrel from the inside of the rim.
A very sharp HSS tool would remove these chatter marks on the piece, I guess.

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2018, 05:41:53 PM »
Thank you gents for your comments. I will try my 4 jaw first and if it won't "reach" then mdf on a face plate.  Thanks again.         Terry

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2018, 09:33:11 PM »
The 4 jaw had just enough reach and I am happy with the result. Thanks again for the sound advice. I had a spare minute today so had a play to produce a pair of "slippers" or crossheads  for the wrist pin. Simple little excercise as you can see.   
When building the Burrell it always seemed that the shop / machines was too small.   Now that I am on smaller stuff it all seems too big :facepalm2:  With that in mind I have dug out an old compound table that has been long out of use.  I intend to buy or make a small vice and use it on the drill press.     Terry

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2018, 10:12:05 PM »
Looking great Terry, I'm wanting to build a biggish steam engine later in the year so I'm following along with interest.

As for the RDG wheel I used one on my grasshopper engine and found it to fine once machined, they are certainly worth the price  :)

Offline Jasonb

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2018, 07:19:03 AM »
terry I mentioned aboyt some pics of making a horizontal cylinder in another thread, these may be of use.

Cylinder once again from hollow bronze, spigots on end and this time decorative bands



Bands make it hard to fit a curved valve block so mill cylinder flat



Pockets for cyl support legs



Valve block with passages milled in, then  valve face to length and dry fit





Solder up and once clean you can treat it as an accurate casting and just skim the faces and bore to finish size





No silly angle drilling of passages needed just open up the flange



Job Done




j

PS I won't need to show you how to do the cross heads but the engine with this cykinder I did very similar :)







Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2018, 10:09:29 AM »
Thanks Jason......masterclass!

Online crueby

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2018, 01:04:39 PM »
Excellent work!

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2018, 09:12:28 PM »
A bit more progress...I am enjoying the make-it-up-as-you go system :)    I thought it best to mill the radius on the crosshead as so many of you do.   bit of a learning curve as not done it before.  Happy with the result but a long time to set up. I feel that my normal system of filing would have done as well. Part is drilled undersize  ready to ream for piston rod. I then need to cut taper slot for cotter. Having fun on small parts after the big Burrell :cartwheel:

Online crueby

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2018, 09:45:05 PM »
That looks great!
Now that you have done the setup for the rounding-over once, bet it goes quicker next time. For small parts I still tend to use the file or sanding belt, but the mill does a very even job.
 :popcorn:

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2018, 10:02:16 PM »
Well done!  :ThumbsUp:
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Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2018, 08:55:30 PM »
I've been sidetracked a lot lately... trips to the Vet's with a very poorly dog :(   And taking a grandaughter and two of her class mates to their Prom do in boss's Model T that I restored a few years back :), and sorting a trailer for the completed Burrell  (video of it running on my Burrell thread)

Back in the shed I decided to have a go at the con-rod.  ...not a lot to describe...pictures should show how. (sorry about picture quality)

Terry

Offline J.L.

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2018, 09:03:58 PM »
Hi Terry,

This is a wonderful thread.

You are very skillful with both metal and the camera!  :ThumbsUp:

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2018, 03:40:16 PM »
John..you flatter..but thank you for the encouragement.       Made a start fabricating the "cast" base. I had a lot of black strip left over, bought for Burrell strakes but not used. so why not use that.  It is just simple sawing and filing with a bit of milling and welding.  The finished lump will require filling to make the fillets, etc.   Willy's approach is much better but I had already cut metal when I saw his thread so carried on ::)  The variety of ways to achieve similar ends is what makes this forum great. If there is anyone watching whose pocket doesn't allow expensive castings then I hope this may be useful.    Terry

Offline gbritnell

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2018, 03:50:27 PM »
Wonderful fabricating Terry. The silver soldering on the cylinder looks great.
gbritnell
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Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2018, 03:59:57 PM »
Thank you, but the cylinder on this thread is by Jason giving me a masterclass on how to make one!!  Not made mine yet......Terry

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2018, 04:01:36 PM »
That should do nicely. Good job on the fabrication.

Bill

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2018, 09:31:18 PM »
Hi Terry,   looking good....i have now finished my base with lots of attempts with the filler !! :popcorn: :popcorn:  Now it is painted i can relax a bit !

Willy

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2018, 09:53:41 PM »
A little TOO freelance..............1        Picture the part in your mind.  (in this case main bearing housing)
                                             2        Make rough sketch with some basic dimensions.
                                             3        Mark out on some stock bar.
                                             4        Hacksaw and tidy up with mill.
                                             5        Drill, tap, make studs and assemble.
                                             6        Realise no allowance made for thickness of bearing brass so not enough metal in cap. :facepalm:
                                             7        Bin it, make new sketch with ALL dimensions and make another one. :Doh: :Doh: :cussing:
               
                                              What a plonker :ROFL:

Online crueby

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2018, 10:22:52 PM »
 :wallbang:


First one was to practice procedures. Yeah, thats it...


Second times the charm!

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2018, 05:19:39 PM »
I have been busy of late and had no spare shed time to progress the little mill engine.   Main job has been fettling and running the Burrell. I have at last got it road registered and running grand. I was disappointed at first, but now everything has bedded in I am thrilled to bits :whoohoo: It is a joy to drive.         Anyway ,  back to topic......An unusual?? method of making the crank disc.  I had no bar suitable so did what you see in the pics. I have since pinned the disc to the shaft and the crankpin has been screwed in tight and it's end peened over. Not pretty at this stage but will improve with paint.  (not trying to copy Willy's lovely engine, but mine will be maroon.........left over from the Burrell ::)

Regards to all              Terry

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2018, 05:51:36 PM »
A bit unusual perhaps, but I like the looks of it Terry. :ThumbsUp:

Bill

Offline scc

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Re: New Project Mill Engine
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2018, 05:40:21 PM »
My workshop time has stopped, mainly due to helping my wife with her very busy on-line shop. On the engine I have filled the base fillet and primed, etc. I decided to lightly flycut the top surface to make sure it was properly flat. Unfortunately the cutter moved slightly in it's holder unnoticed my me until too late :Mad:     It has been scrapped.      Although initially I enjoyed the "freelance"" approach I now realise that my heart wasn't in it and I was making something that I was not proud of.  My plan is to get on my drawing board (not CAD) and design the thing correctly with all dimensions then start again. Short term the Burrell needs a bit of winter TLC if I can fit it in.  Next year when my wife's Xmas rush is over I shall get  going again. Meantime I continue to enjoy and be inspired by all the projects on this great Forum.       Bye for now and Best Wishes       Terry