Author Topic: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project  (Read 34075 times)

Offline Kim

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2017, 04:56:02 PM »
That is a lot of work for one part!  And a heart stopping moment when you realized the holes were in the wrong place, after all that tapping!  :o  I'm glad you got that sorted!

A quick question if I may.  Regarding the slotting cutter you made; why did you choose not to temper it? I've always heard you should do that or the tool will be too brittle.

Thanks Ramon!
Kim

Offline vcutajar

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2017, 04:56:23 PM »
So how long did it take to drill and tap all those hole? :lolb:

Just pulling your leg. :Lol:

Vince

Offline crueby

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2017, 06:41:25 PM »
Thats a very impressive bit of work - very nice!

 :popcorn:

Offline Bertie_Bassett

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2017, 07:52:59 PM »
more wonderfull work as usual Tug, even the slight mishap with the hole alignment has been smoothly rectified.  :ThumbsUp:
one day ill finish a project before starting another!
suffolk - uk

Offline Ramon

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2017, 10:01:46 AM »
Hi Guys - thanks for looking in and your kind comments  :ThumbsUp:

Yep Simon, JB Weld has a lot to be thanked for  ;) Guys - Simon often pulls my leg about me having shares in JBW ;D

Kim - I have made quite a few cutters over the years many tempered but the majority not. Those that are tempered are usually tools that will see potentially ongoing use but those made just for one job I don't bother with. The main reason is that the hardness is then at a maximum, by tempering  such (usually) small tools the tempering, even if carried out carefully, can be a very hit and miss affair and the desired hardness quickly lost.

Based on work experience which I'm happy to go into should anyone want I never quench Silver Steel (I think you call it Drill Rod) in water which is usually the recommended medium but always quench in oil.  This does help to offset cracking especially on small cutters with small section teeth.

I've said it before, but for me, one of the most satisfying and rewarding parts of this hobby, is to be able to make a small cutter to do a specific job and see it perform as intended. It never fails to give me a buzz and it's a skill well worth acquiring.

I can go into it further if wanted but happy to leave it at this stage if not  ;)

Regards - Tug

PS - Vince, too long I'd say  :D - I took each as a separate session - side holes, cylinder ends, steam and exhaust chest and finally those valve holes - I was real glad to get them over with though  ;)

"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
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Offline Kim

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2017, 05:59:47 PM »
Thanks Tug,
Your reasoning makes sense.  That's why I like to ask - it helps me understand the more subtle points of our hobby when I understand why people do things in different ways.  It's usually for a reason! :)

When you say you quench in oil, what do you use?  Just old motor oil?  Way oil?  Baby oil?

Also, I've tended to use W-1, which is Water quench Tool Steel.  Would it make any difference to quench that in oil when hardening?

Thanks for the info Tug!
Kim

Offline Ramon

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2017, 08:11:47 PM »
Hi Kim - I think your W-1 is similar to our Silver Steel in composition though I'm not certain.

I'm not advocating quenching in oil  as the way merely the way I go about it based on a fair amount experience of heat treating of tool steels at a basic level at work.

For several years I ran a small machine shop supporting a factory that produced push on type electrical terminals using multi stage progression press tooling. The machine shop grew from just myself making odd parts to four persons and gradually took on and over work that had previously been sent to outside contractors. One of these was the heat treatment of tooling parts.

Prior to doing this the odd punch, die or cut off blade was made from Arne B01 - a GFS equivalent or indeed GFS itself and heat treated just as we do at home. Proper Wild Barfield ovens were installed however and the correct in-house treatment of tool steels began in earnest virtually on a weekly basis for several years until redundancy closed us down.

I remember clearly the very first batch that came out of the oven and thinking immediately that we had got it wrong - the 'colour' was a very dull red - nowhere near the so called 'cherry red' anticipated. It was immediately obvious that virtually all flame treated parts before that had been much hotter than the specification called for and since then I have always been very careful not to quench if the colour is too bright - waiting for the part to cool slightly before quenching. We used the correct whale oil of which I still have some but virtually any oil will do.
Something we always did in colder times was to take the chill off the oil by heating a small block at the same time as the parts and dropping that in the oil first. That was as a result of a batch cracking but it was a very cold overnight temp that had chilled the oil. We never experienced cracking of Arne or GFS parts after we did that.

At one stage we had to make a lot of small adjusters with a hex socket formed in them. These were made from Silver Steel and quenched to the manufacturers spec in cold water. Many of this first batch disintegrated in use with the torque of the hex key so a decision was made to quench in oil and no further problems occurred with these parts.

So since then I have always quenched silver steel parts in oil - there may be a slight loss of hardness but it's virtually immeasurable at home and has always - for me - done the business.

This wasn't 'high tec' heat treatment but it was carried out in a carefully controlled manner to the steel manufacturers specs obviously including the tempering. Tempering at home in comparison to doing it correctly really is a hit and miss affair but when I do do it I always use a container of sand, pre heated so the part goes into (and under) hot sand and slowly turned and constantly checked for the colour growth.

One thing to be aware of when tempering by colour is that if you quench too soon and decide to re temper to lower the hardness a little more the colour will not change from that resulting from the initial quench. You need to remove the colour by abrading ie using emery/wet and dry paper etc back to a clean surface before popping back in the sand and re-tempering to the new colour desired.

Hope I haven't gone on too much there Kim but hopefully it's of use and to others too

Tug

PS Just thought I'd add - I worked for this company for fourteen years - it's coming up for eighteen years since I left  :o
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline Kim

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2017, 12:30:55 AM »
Thanks for that excellent information, Tug.
I found it to be of great interest, and I'm sure others did too.

Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed response to my questions!
Kim

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2017, 01:18:37 AM »


Thanks for that excellent information, Tug.
I found it to be of great interest, and I'm sure others did too.

As did I Tug. The use of whale oil was a new one on me. Definitely hadn't heard of that before.

Bill

Offline Ramon

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2017, 04:54:03 PM »
You're welcome Kim and Bill, glad that was of help.

Bill I don't know where one would get whale oil these days but I'm sure someone will. It's not that important though as most oil will do for our needs, used or not - at a push even cooking oil will cope. Ha, I bet Ole Whiskey's got a pint or two of that going spare  :Lol:


Work steadily progresses down in 'tha ole shid' so a little more will bring us closer to current situation.

As said the right hand engine parts were exchanged for two new flywheel halves and the outer bearing pedestal.  However sitting on the bench for near twenty years was 'one done earlier'


At one stage offered for less than half the cost of the castings it was met with a rather ill considered six word reply of "I won't be buying that then" Needless to say after sorting out the packaging and a potential courier that was really 'well received' and precipitated an immediate 'well there it can stay' attitude (well, sort of). And so it's sat, redundant until now.

Bolted together with cap heads it was thought it may be possible to cut it into two so it was up on the new mill without delay. To be honest I did take a big gulp before touching that cutter on but it just sailed through.  The  cutter was initially plunged in straight till near touching the arbour then moved across the Y axis. Once cleared the 'wheel was turned  and the next cut made. Little packing pieces were inserted to prevent the top half nipping the blade toward the end and on final break through it just sat there, the cutter ticking in the slot.


It's held to the table with just one bolt through the lower half spokes into a tee nut. (There's a space between each set of spokes) The copy paper underneath is to enhance the grip - something it will do immensely over metal to metal contact. I was expecting the saw to protest as it passed through the capheads but it proved unfounded and the whole op was done in very short order.

The original join was a 'step and register' type and there was no way of knowing where this laid exactly but it was hoped the saw would remove this and this proved more or less so.


You can see evidence of the join in this image so the positioning wasn't too far out.The cap heads were dot punched .....


...and drilled out freehand.


Cast iron plugs were turned, Loctited and peened over ready for facing off on the lathe.


I knew I had done all the turning at home originally but at first could not remember how I had done it as it was not possible to place the wheel in the gap with the faceplate in situ. It soon fell into place though and the first thing was to turn a short plug that would fit the flywheel bore as close to the mandrel nose as possible - it's bolted to a Morse taper held in place with a draw-bar


The flywheel was placed in the gap first and tilted toward the tailstock. The faceplate was then screwed on and up tight before lifting the flywheel onto the plug. Tailstock support pushes the flywheel's central boss up against the faceplate with the rim overhanging the flywheel. Some lightly placed but secure clamps provided the drive.


I think you'd agree this was a successful, if a bit hairy, set up but little if any run out  :D


The only thing that transpired doing this was that the spokes are slightly offset to the rim do to losing that stepped join. In hindsight I could have ignored that and made the wheel a tad wider but hindsight, as they say, is twenty twenty vision and that's not readily available these days :old: The plan is to board the flywheel however so it shouldn't be too much of an issue.


So, a successful outcome and there's still two nice un-machined flywheel halves in store. The icing on the cake however was at the Forncett Event in October. Both flywheel parts laid on the table and explaining it to a visitor was asked what was going to happen to the remaining half - let's just say a favourable deal was done  ;D

With this ready work could commence on the crankshaft and getting the bed plates aligned on the base but that's for later

That's it for now then - Tug
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2017, 06:10:08 PM »
Great update as usual Tug. As far as the hairy setups go: I would assume, given your former profession, you are accustomed to “hairy”, as long as it’s done safely  8). I just happen to have access to a liberal amount of “pig oil” and an upcoming heat treat project. So, I’ll report back  :cheers:

Cletus

Offline kvom

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2017, 06:17:39 PM »
Whale oil is banned in the US by the Endangered Species Act of 1973. 

Offline Jo

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2017, 06:42:48 PM »
At one stage offered for less than half the cost of the castings it was met with a rather ill considered six word reply of "I won't be buying that then" Needless to say after sorting out the packaging and a potential courier that was really 'well received' and precipitated an immediate 'well there it can stay' attitude (well, sort of). And so it's sat, redundant until now.

A point of clarification: If you are referring to offering to sell it to me then the price you quoted was more than half the cost of the full set of engine castings at that time not the half the cost of the flywheels. When I enquired to Southworth it was cheaper to buy new flywheel castings than your orphan ::)

Jo
Usus est optimum magister

Offline Ramon

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2017, 07:04:34 PM »
Well no names no pack drill Jo but I distinctly remember the amount as £90 plus carriage. At the time I recall those flywheel halves were around £45 plus a piece but it wasn't the amount - that could have been negotiated - just the manner of the email from the person concerned that got - to coin a phrase - right up my nostrils   :(.

Hi Eric - yes you could say that - one or two moments to say the least  :D Thanks for looking in  :ThumbsUp:

Whale oil is banned in the US by the Endangered Species Act of 1973. 
 
Quite right too kvom -  I would imagine it's much the same here now however that was more than twenty five years ago we began using that and I certainly wouldn't suggest it now. Just wanted to show we were trying to do it 'all by the book' at the time.

Not much done today - far too much time on here but tomorrow's another day as they say

Back later - Ole Tug
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline Jo

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Re: Tug's Corliss Tandem Compound Project
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2017, 07:08:27 PM »
Well no names no pack drill Jo but I distinctly remember the amount as £90 plus carriage.

We have a difference of memory then: Eric and I remember it as £200  :paranoia:

Jo
Usus est optimum magister