Author Topic: Moving Machine Tools  (Read 857 times)

Online Kim

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2017, 09:19:53 PM »
That is one impressive moving job.  And the fact that you did it successfully with no incidents shows that you did a pretty good job on planning it!

Not much advice on the machine front.  Personally, I'd be disappointed giving up my 14" Grizzly lathe (G0709) back to my Taig exclusively.  I did some work on the Taig recently and remembered all the 'small lathe' problems I used to have.  Mainly rigidity, lack of power, etc.  And how LONG it takes to remove 1/4" of steel on that little lathe.  I loved my Taig, but I know it would be hard to go back.  I do almost everything on the big lathe, even stuff that would work on the Taig.  Of course, I have a DRO on the Grizzly which is a big advantage too.

Best of luck to you,
Kim

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2017, 02:45:32 PM »
I guess it's a matter of perspective. I think it's a lot harder to go from larger to smaller, than it is from smaller to larger. For me, with my Sherlines, going to a 10" lathe would be a huge jump. One thing you might analyze is if you could of done the projects, you've done in the past, with smaller machines like the Grizzly you mentioned. Also, what projects you might want to do in the future.

You're in a great position, in that you have your big machines stored and your Sherlines ready to work with. You might be surprised and find out that they give you the satisfaction and enjoyment of machining stuff without having to use a hoist to change chucks! I guess it's all about what your mission is.

Jim

Jim: Looking back, only a few tasks couldn't be done on a 10" lathe and/or Tormach 1100. I'd not be penalized by the work envelopes. But I worry rigidity and quality could be sacrificed.

I've used the Sherlines enough to know they aren't a good substitute. They are quality machines but the size, rigidity and power are serious compromises. A lot better than nothing and for traveling it's the only game in town. They will be a lot of fun, but as a substitute for larger machines, not a great trade off.

Thanks.

Hugh

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2017, 03:04:15 PM »
I build things within the work envelope provided by my tools. I have a King KC1022ML, essentially a Grizzly G0602. (The G0752 is its variable speed sibling). Prior I had a Taig, which I got a lot of use out of. But now I would not want to go back from the 1022.  My criteria when looking for a machine was 1" through the spindle.
Gerrit: The biggest restrictions I've found on my 14" lathe is the spindle bore (and it's 1 5/8"  :o) and rpm.
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With regard to selling or not, I would consider what you are about to pay for storage. If you can keep that going for however long you are on-the-road, then keep your existing machines. It is unlikely that anything you buy to replace them will be of the same quality or condition (if used). E.g. 2 years ago when I was loooking for my lathe there was lots of choice in 9" SB's, 1022's, 1236's erc . Now almost nothing on the usual places, such as Kijiji.ca. Plus those machines are in your finger tips, anything else will be a learning curve which at our time of life is best spent using what we already know :-)
Storage wouldn't be too much of a problem. We're have most of our belongings in storage as well as a good bit of my shop anyway. Good points, finding replacement used equipment with the same low hours would be impossible. Something to be said for known quantities, as he packs up everything and hits the road for the foreseeable future.
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If during your travels you find that you totally enjoy the Sherline sized projects, then you can always make the decision to sell existing stuff.
I've used the Sherlines enough to know they are a poor substitute. Will be great for travel and of good quality but lacking rigidity, power and envelope.

Thanks for the feedback, very helpful.

Hugh

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2017, 03:21:36 PM »
I have a manual varispeed head Bridgeport (by Adcock and Shipley) and a Tormach PCNC1100, so the comparison isn't CNC versus CNC, but below is a version of something I wrote on another forum a while back:
.....................

Although I have a rotary table for the Bridgeport it doesn't have the same scope for complex parts as using the 4th axis on the Tormach. Since this was written I have added a high speed (24000rpm) spindle to the Tormach which greatly helps with small (<1mm) cutters, at the expense of being able to use tool tables.

Andrew

Andrew: Thank you for the response, very helpful. My experience with my SuperMax knee mill mirrors yours. It has a belt driven head with two ranges. My phase converter is a VERY noisy 20HP motor so I don't really know how noisy the mill (or lathe) are. If I keep them I'll add a VFD mainly for a quieter three phase conversion. It sounds like a pretty even trade between the knee mill and Tormach.

If I keep the SuperMax I'll probably make a fourth axis and high speed spindle. These have been on the wish list for some time.

Thanks again.

Hugh

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2017, 03:25:03 PM »
I am glad that You mentioned that the Wife helped You out. I showed the pictures to My Wife and She thought surely You must not be married. ;) My Wife helps with moves but My garage is underneath the house with garage door access. Carry on, good job.
Yep. I'd be lost without her, and I'm forever grateful she puts up with me. The shop is one of those things she puts up with.

Thanks.

Hugh

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2017, 03:33:32 PM »
That is one impressive moving job.  And the fact that you did it successfully with no incidents shows that you did a pretty good job on planning it!
Kim: It was much easier moving equipment out than in. Moving in required design and build of the hoist. Many checks of the calculations and a test lift with a large block of concrete. The move out overall went very smoothly with no incidents. A lot of thinking and re-setting rigging but no-one hurt and no damage to equipment. Life is great.
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Not much advice on the machine front.  Personally, I'd be disappointed giving up my 14" Grizzly lathe (G0709) back to my Taig exclusively.  I did some work on the Taig recently and remembered all the 'small lathe' problems I used to have.  Mainly rigidity, lack of power, etc.  And how LONG it takes to remove 1/4" of steel on that little lathe.  I loved my Taig, but I know it would be hard to go back.  I do almost everything on the big lathe, even stuff that would work on the Taig.  Of course, I have a DRO on the Grizzly which is a big advantage too.
Yes. I'd not be satisfied with the Sherlines as permanent replacements. They should be good, and the only possibility, for traveling. I anticipate learning a great deal using them. But as a permanent replacement, not ideal. The Sherlines are CNC which is helpful.

Thanks.

Hugh

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2017, 01:32:14 AM »
Some good feedback, thank you. No-one thought it a great idea to downsize!

The consensus is, a smaller lathe in the 10" range would be a poor substitute for my 14". A little too light and the quality of new 10" range lathes is lacking. I've seen a few seemingly nice lathes in the 12" range, but this doesn't save me much room. The cost of storage isn't overwhelming, we'll already be storing a good bit of stuff, so I'll hold onto the Goodway 14". This at least till I know what size the new shop will be. It's a very nice lathe of known good quality.

The Tormach 1100 looks to be an even trade with my converted knee mill. Similar capabilities but also similar floor space. The capacity of the Tormach 770 is a little small. So I'll also keep my SuperMax knee mill. If I'm moving the lathe then also moving the mill won't be twice the trouble or expense.

In our storage unit I've started a trial layout of a 10'x20' shop. This is a one car garage and about the smallest I'd go for in Arizona. So far it looks doable though tight. May need to capture some additional room for stock storage and spill over.

Thank you for your feedback and help.

Hugh

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2017, 02:12:09 AM »
Hugh

Would the storage be in Arizona or Oregon? If Oregon I would be concerned about rust.
If you can swing it, I agree with the others about hanging on to your big tools for a while until you get settled.

Dave

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2017, 03:11:54 AM »
This has been a really interesting thread. My take-away from it is that it's much easier to go from smaller to bigger, than to go from bigger to smaller.  :shrug: For example: If I was to go to a 10" lathe and comparable mill, from my present Sherline lathe and mill, I'd feel like I'd made a huge jump in capability.

I just recently joined our local Model Engineering Club and I'm really looking forward to visiting other shops to see what equipment folks are using to do what we do.

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2017, 03:53:57 AM »

Would the storage be in Arizona or Oregon? If Oregon I would be concerned about rust.
If you can swing it, I agree with the others about hanging on to your big tools for a while until you get settled.

Dave

Dave: Storage will be in Oregon. But in Klamath Falls which is high desert, similar to Boise. I don't think rust will be a problem.

Thanks.

Hugh

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2017, 04:04:39 AM »
This has been a really interesting thread. My take-away from it is that it's much easier to go from smaller to bigger, than to go from bigger to smaller.  :shrug: For example: If I was to go to a 10" lathe and comparable mill, from my present Sherline lathe and mill, I'd feel like I'd made a huge jump in capability.

I just recently joined our local Model Engineering Club and I'm really looking forward to visiting other shops to see what equipment folks are using to do what we do.

Jim

Jim: Any size machines are far superior to no machines! If I were starting over I'd go a little smaller, but not too much smaller. Depends a lot on shop space. Traveling with the Sherlines will be a learning process. I expect to pickup some added skills using these.

It would be nice to have a Machining Club within reach. But from here it's a days drive. Sure glad for MEM and similar forums or there would be no chance to interact with mentors.

Thanks.

Hugh

Offline jadge

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2017, 10:47:29 AM »
My phase converter is a VERY noisy 20HP motor so I don't really know how noisy the mill (or lathe) are.

I'm running my Bridgeport on a proper 415V 3-phase supply, so I know that the noise is coming from the machine. I suspect it's a combination of noise from the varispeed belt and possibly the plastic "bearings" in the spindle being worn. I've already partially dismantled the head twice to change broken drive belts; I'm not about to change the plastic parts until absolutely necessary.  :)

Andrew


Offline Jo

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Re: Moving Machine Tools
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2017, 10:54:47 AM »
My phase converter is a VERY noisy 20HP motor so I don't really know how noisy the mill (or lathe) are.

I'm running my Bridgeport on a proper 415V 3-phase supply, so I know that the noise is coming from the machine.

I have a Rotary converter that is noisier than any of my industrial machines but having said that it is not as noisy as Prazimat mill or Lathe  :hellno: The radio drowns the rotary converter out  :)

Jo
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