Author Topic: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel  (Read 153846 times)

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2385 on: November 07, 2018, 08:49:04 PM »
Crueby:

Regarding why they used a "dog clutch" to hold the inner hemisphere in place.  Maybe they found out the hard way that the deep grooves in the hemisphere by themselves aren't enough to allow the full up and down travel of the tracks without things being ripped apart.  There might be some sort of travel limiter inside the hemisphere casting that only allows it to move a fixed distance laterally, then the "dog clutch" takes over and allows the rest of the required movement.  I'm assuming that you haven't taken one of these apart to see what's inside? 

Have you moved the tracks to the full up and down positions to measure how much travel you need for these shafts?

Don

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2386 on: November 07, 2018, 09:02:57 PM »
Crueby:

Regarding why they used a "dog clutch" to hold the inner hemisphere in place.  Maybe they found out the hard way that the deep grooves in the hemisphere by themselves aren't enough to allow the full up and down travel of the tracks without things being ripped apart.  There might be some sort of travel limiter inside the hemisphere casting that only allows it to move a fixed distance laterally, then the "dog clutch" takes over and allows the rest of the required movement.  I'm assuming that you haven't taken one of these apart to see what's inside? 

Have you moved the tracks to the full up and down positions to measure how much travel you need for these shafts?

Don
Very hard to tell without taking one apart, and I think one of these shaft assemblies would weigh more than my car (plus the historical society would beat me with the drive shaft if I tried). On the model, lifting one end of a track at a time by 30 degrees changes the length only around 1/16", which would only be 1 inch at full size. That would be well within the depth of the slots on the U-joints. I wonder if it was to make it easier to assemble in the field, or to back off the clutch side and let the thing freewheel for some reason (maybe for installing track plates?). The patents don't go into detail on the drive shafts at all, and I don't have a catalog from the era where the tracks were used (still hoping to find one someday). If the dog clutch side is really driving the big end, it must have some sort of splines or keyway inside, but that is not visible. Must be a reason...   :thinking:

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2387 on: November 07, 2018, 09:51:29 PM »
Letting it freewheel would make sense for track repair.  Hard to be sure without a look inside.

Maybe you could send the Ninja elves out for a little midnight reconnizence, reconnoyter, look-see?

Don

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2388 on: November 07, 2018, 10:30:53 PM »
Letting it freewheel would make sense for track repair.  Hard to be sure without a look inside.

Maybe you could send the Ninja elves out for a little midnight reconnizence, reconnoyter, look-see?

Don
:Lol:

The more I think about it the more I think that it would help assembly too, they could slide it up the shaft once the drive shaft was engaged at the outer end too.

Offline Don1966

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2389 on: November 07, 2018, 11:02:26 PM »
Dog those family shots are so cool I get the chills. Damn son that looks awesome..... :praise2:


 :cheers:
Don

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2390 on: November 07, 2018, 11:22:09 PM »
Dog those family shots are so cool I get the chills. Damn son that looks awesome..... :praise2:


 :cheers:
Don
Thanks Don!

Offline RJH

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2391 on: November 08, 2018, 12:33:44 AM »
Would it help to turn a corner better if they could manually disconnect one drive shaft?

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2392 on: November 08, 2018, 12:44:30 AM »
Would it help to turn a corner better if they could manually disconnect one drive shaft?
Hmm. It is front track drive, rear track steering, so it could only turn as sharp as the rear track will turn to the side. But, not having a differential, that would make some sense, since it would not have to slide as much. The time needed to disconnect and reconnect it would be a problem, and if the u joint moved down the drive shaft would fall off. Given how early this was in track development, 1923, it may just have been an assembly thing. I would love to see a catalog from mid 1920s and see what it says about it.


 :thinking:

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2393 on: November 08, 2018, 03:51:17 PM »
Whew. My last reply was some 230 posts ago.
After a 37 day road trip, and two weeks of trying to recover a toasted hard drive (I'm still not done), I thought I'd be seeing a Marion trundling down your driveway.  ;D

Can't you go a bit faster?  :Lol: Are your elves slacking off?

But I can't add much more to what all has been said here. Fantastic project.

P.S. I saw your post about your elves maybe getting hold of my Stinking Hoppie recipe. You'd best warn them...that recipe is what toasted my hard drive.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2394 on: November 08, 2018, 07:07:36 PM »
Whew. My last reply was some 230 posts ago.
After a 37 day road trip, and two weeks of trying to recover a toasted hard drive (I'm still not done), I thought I'd be seeing a Marion trundling down your driveway.  ;D

Can't you go a bit faster?  :Lol: Are your elves slacking off?

But I can't add much more to what all has been said here. Fantastic project.

P.S. I saw your post about your elves maybe getting hold of my Stinking Hoppie recipe. You'd best warn them...that recipe is what toasted my hard drive.


We have been waiting for you!    :Lol:


And taking time off to carve a weathervane, build a rc submarine, go to Maine... Yeah, slacking off!


Still many months to go on the Marion, having lots of fun on it!


 :cheers:

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2395 on: November 08, 2018, 08:06:34 PM »
Chris, since Zee’s National Lampoon vacation is over, perhaps you should invite him up to assist and get you caught up   :stickpoke:, he is retired you know  :lolb:.. BTW Zee, how did the steam cooking thingy work out for you? Now, back to the build. I’m thinking the “half-shafts”, with u-joints, would be just for the “up and down “ movement of the tracks, because, all tracked vehicles turn by one track turning and the other not or at least not as much or in the opposite direction. See, that’s how if you want to do it really quick, one track goes forward and the other back. Grandpa Reid put me on a D8 Cat dozer when I was 15 and wouldn’t let me lower the blade until I could “drive it “ . After I got the feel, it made sense. If any of y’all have a “zero turn” lawnmower, it’s exactly the same; hence my thinking that the half shafts were for power transmission and vertical movements. Ok, back to the elves :lolb:

Eric

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2396 on: November 08, 2018, 08:54:04 PM »
Chris, since Zee’s National Lampoon vacation is over, perhaps you should invite him up to assist and get you caught up   :stickpoke: , he is retired you know  :lolb: .. BTW Zee, how did the steam cooking thingy work out for you? Now, back to the build. I’m thinking the “half-shafts”, with u-joints, would be just for the “up and down “ movement of the tracks, because, all tracked vehicles turn by one track turning and the other not or at least not as much or in the opposite direction. See, that’s how if you want to do it really quick, one track goes forward and the other back. Grandpa Reid put me on a D8 Cat dozer when I was 15 and wouldn’t let me lower the blade until I could “drive it “ . After I got the feel, it made sense. If any of y’all have a “zero turn” lawnmower, it’s exactly the same; hence my thinking that the half shafts were for power transmission and vertical movements. Ok, back to the elves :lolb:

Eric
Oh, wrong on SO many fronts...
 :LittleDevil:
Lets see, Zee is always most welcome to visit, but helping in the shop.....  ummmmm.... errrr... Oh yes, thatwould be MOST helpful.... What was your address again to send Zee over? Tennessee somewhere?? 

 :lolb:
As for the tracks, in this case, as with the Lombard, the driven tracks ONLY provide power, they do nothing to steer the machine. Not ALL tracked vehicles steer by the tracks - look at the old WW-II halftrack trucks. On the Lombard, the front wheels did the steering, and the tracks had a differential so they did not overpower the wheels and make it keep going straght. On the Marion, the front tracks drive together always, no differential or stopping one track at a time, and the rear tracks, which are un-driven, do all the steering since they can rotate left and right on the center vertical pivot. The front tracks, with no differential and a smooth outer surface (no grouser ribs), would skid some in the turns, but since they were normally on dirt, mud, hard rock, etc, that is not a problem, and it only did half a mile an hour at best speed anyway.
So, the U-joints accounted for the vertical pitching motion as it went over uneven ground - the track has a central horizontal axle that it can pivot front and back on, which changed the angle to the drive shaft in the center of the machine as well as a slight distance difference.
Anyway, back to the elves!


Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2397 on: November 08, 2018, 08:57:06 PM »
Was out and about most of the day, this afternoon got a start on the drive nubs for the U-joints on the track drive shafts. There are four of these at each end, they will be set into the round end of the ball at the ends of the shafts, to be made next. The big bars at the left top will be those balls, the narrower bars are the drive shafts themselves. The outer housings will come after these parts are made...




Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2398 on: November 08, 2018, 11:41:12 PM »
Well excuuuuuuuuse me. I guess your Marion is different than any track driven piece of equipment I’ve ever operated. Of coarse I’ve only ran those built in the early 50’s or so  :shrug:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2399 on: November 09, 2018, 12:02:54 AM »
Well excuuuuuuuuse me. I guess your Marion is different than any track driven piece of equipment I’ve ever operated. Of coarse I’ve only ran those built in the early 50’s or so  :shrug:
No problem, this is way different than a typical dozer or modern crane, still early days in tracked machines. Hope I didn't come across too strong, just having some fun with you!
 :cheers: