Author Topic: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel  (Read 309423 times)

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #930 on: March 27, 2018, 12:42:44 AM »
It's looking great Chris, I look in daily to see what's new.
Are you going to mount the support bails on the upper end of the boom with a large pin like the real one?
It will get a washer plate, as will the end sheave axle to simulate the look. Its hard to tell how the real ones were on the inside, doubt they will let me take it apart!   :o   Wish I could find a spare parts book for one this old, they are out there for the ones in the 50's and 60's. The Lombard hauler had one, that helped a lot.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #931 on: March 27, 2018, 12:50:02 AM »
Wow.  :o That's all I can say, is, Wow.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
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Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #932 on: March 27, 2018, 01:23:42 AM »
Wow.  :o That's all I can say, is, Wow.


Hi Carl!  Good to hear from you again.  Back on the Stanley topic, found out one of the guys I shoot with has an original Locomobile engine, couple replaced parts but it runs on compressed air. Still working on getting him to sell it to me. Maybe next time he needs money for parts on his model t or corvair...


 :cheers:

Offline Steamer5

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #933 on: March 27, 2018, 07:44:59 AM »
Looking good Chris, how’s the elve party going? You better find there planning board, or put out cookie piles to keep there minds off mischief!

Oh Sunday, at my mates place playing White steam cars! Friday it had been going great, Sunday, well no! So back to the drawing board to see what we can figure out what’s changed. Trouble shooting hot steam cars is fun, lots of coffee while you wait for them to cool down enuff so you can try plan b, or c or d.......

Cheers Kerrin
Get excited and make something!

Offline Steam Haulage

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #934 on: March 27, 2018, 09:35:13 AM »
Hi Chris, The HCEA has masses of detailed information in their archive. Which includes the 'Marion PowerShovel Company Archive'.
Being a few thousand miles away I'm not in a position to visit their Museum for myself but from whatI hear you may be able to find the detail you need. There might even be a member who has the information.  A recent article in 'Equipment Echoes' magazine by Don Franz the editor, whose father had been a craneman on the Marion 91 Panama shovel in the France quarry in Waterville Ohio.
The HCEA phone is(419)352-5616. Perhaps a call might be worthwhile?
Jerry
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Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #935 on: March 27, 2018, 06:37:49 PM »
Hi Chris, The HCEA has masses of detailed information in their archive. Which includes the 'Marion PowerShovel Company Archive'.
Being a few thousand miles away I'm not in a position to visit their Museum for myself but from whatI hear you may be able to find the detail you need. There might even be a member who has the information.  A recent article in 'Equipment Echoes' magazine by Don Franz the editor, whose father had been a craneman on the Marion 91 Panama shovel in the France quarry in Waterville Ohio.
The HCEA phone is(419)352-5616. Perhaps a call might be worthwhile?
Jerry
I have been through the listings of those archives, for the early years it appears that what they have are patent documents and sales brochures and such, all in very poor condition (dirty, brittle) waiting to be photocopied. For the early years, does not sound like they have much I have not seen elsewhere. The Marion County historical society got the other half of the old company documents. I've been in touch with them a few times, things are not organized but I may stop in there on my way out to Indiana this summer and see what I can find. Both places got boxes of documents when the company was shut down in the 90s by Bucyrus - by then, as in many old companies, early records were mostly missing as irrelevant to current operations. Same thing happened at Kodak - we had a museum room full of old cameras and products, and during the bankruptcy shutdown of the camera division, they were just giving the stuff away to anyone interested in a souvineer! For companies like Marion, every time they went through a building move, merger, or buyout, truckloads of stuff would be tossed that we would kill for today!

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #936 on: March 27, 2018, 06:39:53 PM »
Looking good Chris, how’s the elve party going? You better find there planning board, or put out cookie piles to keep there minds off mischief!

Oh Sunday, at my mates place playing White steam cars! Friday it had been going great, Sunday, well no! So back to the drawing board to see what we can figure out what’s changed. Trouble shooting hot steam cars is fun, lots of coffee while you wait for them to cool down enuff so you can try plan b, or c or d.......

Cheers Kerrin
It was not too bad, the cops only showed up once...   :lolb:

Sounds like great fun with the steam cars, when are you going to drive one way over here (you can do laps of the ships deck while crossing the oceans) for us to play with??  Glad you guys are keeping them active and preserved!

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #937 on: March 27, 2018, 10:41:31 PM »
Today got a start on the large gears which drive the dipper boom in and out, driven by the crowd engine. Strted by cutting a pair of discs (left slightly oversize) out of some 1/4" x 4" 360 brass bar:

which was drilled in the center for the axle, bolted to a centered arbor in the 4-jaw, then 3 more bolts added out in the areas where the spoke cutouts will be, to prevent the gear from turning on the arbor and ruining the gear (had that happen in the past, did not want to risk wasting these big chunks). Once on the rotary table, the discs were trued up to final diameter with an end mill.

Then the rotary table was moved to its vertical position, and the gear cutter (module 1) centered by sighting it on the axle hole.

Moved back out to the rim, moved in till the cutter was just touching the disc, then moved in for the depth of the teeth and started cutting all 86 teeth on each disc. I pre-calculate the rotab moves in a spreadsheet, with the results rounded to tenth of a degree, then print that out and tick off each move as they are made to ensure that I dont skip one. Still, with this many to cut, it takes focus to keep track of all the moves.

Here is one of the gears held up to the main boom to show where it will go:

With all the teeth cut on both gears the rotary table was laid back down horizontally to cut the spokes. The spokes on these are fairly narrow and are tapered, narrower at the rim. Using the 3D model the angles and distances were found for all the corners of the spoke openings, assuming a 1/8" drill and mill will be used. The corners will be squared off with a file later. So, went through the list of angles and distances to drill the inner and outer corner holes, and drew in the outlines of the spokes to aid in keeping track of where the waste is during milling, since with this many holes it looks like a random pattern withouth the lines.

Then, on to the actual spoke cutting. I like to work from the rim back in to the center to avoid any flexing in the part (not that big a problem in a thick gear like this, but its my habit). So, started by roughing in the arcs between each spoke - made the first cut just inside the finished edge since these thin end mills will flex slightly when making a through cut in thick material. In this photo, all 6 openings were roughed in, and the two on the right were taken out to final dimension with a series of light passes.

Four more to go on that gear, then the same on the other gear, and it will be ready for the next step in shaping the spokes - thinning the edge between that arc and the bottom of the teeth to form the rim.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 12:12:01 PM by crueby »

Offline Don1966

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #938 on: March 28, 2018, 01:57:04 AM »
Dog, dog you are the man! I missed some days here but geeez man your moving like a freight train through this thing. A well planned model and some of the best damn craftmanship yet. Great fabrication work just jaw dropping. Love how you planned the gears Chris well though out bud.  :praise2:


Don  :drinking-41:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #939 on: March 28, 2018, 02:03:49 AM »
Dog, dog you are the man! I missed some days here but geeez man your moving like a freight train through this thing. A well planned model and some of the best damn craftmanship yet. Great fabrication work just jaw dropping. Love how you planned the gears Chris well though out bud.  :praise2:


Don  :drinking-41:


 :cheers:

Offline Steam Haulage

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #940 on: March 28, 2018, 08:40:11 AM »
Hi Chris,
Thanks for the information on the HCEA and other archives. Seems as though our immediate forefathers were keener on tidiness than on history, no matter which country or continent is involved. Amazingly the only thing for which there seems to be any adequate record is the period from 1939 to 1945. Perhaps by 1950 they were wanting to put the past behind them

Maginificent work on the Marion 91; as others have said youir rate of progress is amazing.  Cookies seem to help but your progress can't only be down to their consumption.
I'm still working on the drawings for the 19-RB, the development in shovels between 1910 and 1945 seems to have added to the complexity of the engineering.

Jerry :old:
Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you, pigs treat you as equal.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #941 on: March 28, 2018, 01:46:42 PM »
Hi Chris,
Thanks for the information on the HCEA and other archives. Seems as though our immediate forefathers were keener on tidiness than on history, no matter which country or continent is involved. Amazingly the only thing for which there seems to be any adequate record is the period from 1939 to 1945. Perhaps by 1950 they were wanting to put the past behind them

Maginificent work on the Marion 91; as others have said youir rate of progress is amazing.  Cookies seem to help but your progress can't only be down to their consumption.
I'm still working on the drawings for the 19-RB, the development in shovels between 1910 and 1945 seems to have added to the complexity of the engineering.

Jerry :old:
Have you found good detail on the 19-RB, found one to measure maybe?

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #942 on: March 28, 2018, 02:02:02 PM »
Chris--Amazing work as usual. A quick question about your gear cutting picture. Do you lower the cutter until it is completely thru the part before you start milling the curved slots, or do you do it in a number of small depth cuts over and over until you are thru?---Brian

Offline Steam Haulage

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #943 on: March 28, 2018, 03:09:59 PM »
If only.

I have just had medical advice that I can no longer drive and to surrender my driving licence. I've been diabetic for almost fifty years and have been lucky to have been able to drive for all that time. Old age.

The nearest to me is at Threlkeld quarry museum but that is almost impossible to get to by public transport. Might get one of the step children to drive me there once the weather improves.

I have been able to get a lot of R-B publications, including the spec. that the UK military used duting WWII. Most useful, and containing almost all the dimensions I need is the parts and assembly manual for the 19RB. The spec and manual give enough dimensions to be able to derive the actual sizes as built when associated with the large numbers of photos and videos I have collected. In doing the Inventor modelling I decided to do full paramentric so that I can (hopefully) make amendments when (if) I get a chance to have a measuring session(s) with a full size machine.
Some of the info. has come from the HCEA as the 19RB and the 19B apparently were built to the Bucyrus 19B drawings.
Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you, pigs treat you as equal.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #944 on: March 28, 2018, 03:26:12 PM »
Chris--Amazing work as usual. A quick question about your gear cutting picture. Do you lower the cutter until it is completely thru the part before you start milling the curved slots, or do you do it in a number of small depth cuts over and over until you are thru?---Brian

On these arcs I lowered the cutter right through (brand new cutter, nice and sharp) and then slowly rotated the table through the arc. Then cranked it back the other way, and saw it take more out of the one side, could see how much it had pulled the cutter in one direction on the first pass. I'm sure that taking several shallower cuts would have reduced this, but since the entire inside of the 'pie' would be removed anyway, no concern about the thickness of the kerf removed, and this was quicker. This is 360 brass, so it cuts nice and smooth - on aluminum I would have mad several passes to prevent clogging. After that initial pass, did a couple more about 20 thou each to get out to the final dimension on the arc.

This morning I've gotten the rest of the arcs cut, and have started in on shaping the inner edge of the rim with a ball end mill - pics to come after lunch...