Author Topic: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel  (Read 299643 times)

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #240 on: November 27, 2017, 02:54:39 AM »
Chris.........do you happen to know if there's one of these shovels operational anywhere?  I'm imagining there isn't.

Jim
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Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #241 on: November 27, 2017, 03:27:54 AM »
Chris.........do you happen to know if there's one of these shovels operational anywhere?  I'm imagining there isn't.

Jim
For this particular model, the Marion 91, this is the best example. I understand that there is the remains of one in much worse shape in Panama. None others that I am aware of.


There ARE other similar sized shovels around, still running in museum and show settings. There are a number of great videos on YouTube of them. There is a site (don't know the address offhand) that has a list of survivors, mostly the smaller ones, a fair number of large ones.


I've seen some of the later gas and Diesel ones working at the Canandaigua steam pageant, never seen a steam one operate in person.


Except for the final controls, my 3d model is complete, and am going back to the shovel in the morning for last details. Then I will generate the plans from that at full scale measurements, should be a good stack of D size paper! After that I'll copy the project and scale it down. I've settled on a scale of 3/4":1', same as my Kozo Shay model, will make a great pair. The Lombard model is slightly larger at 1":1' scale. I considered 1:20, but think it will be better details at 1:16.


Online Metals has a sale starting tomorrow, may pick up the material for the larger frame rails and booms...

Offline Kim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #242 on: November 27, 2017, 05:11:40 AM »
Yeah, they're having a great sale Chris!  30% off!  I'd like to take advantage of it, but I'm just not ready to order for my new project.  They'll have a sale again sometime soon (I hope).

Good luck!  And may Santa bring you all the metal you need!

Kim

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #243 on: November 27, 2017, 01:43:10 PM »
Yeah, they're having a great sale Chris!  30% off!  I'd like to take advantage of it, but I'm just not ready to order for my new project.  They'll have a sale again sometime soon (I hope).

Good luck!  And may Santa bring you all the metal you need!

Kim
Just put in an order that will cover the bulk of the project - a hefty bill, but this is a quite large model and the 30% sale saved me a LOT. Though the bill in cookies to get my UPS driver not to hate me (again, more) for ordering heavy packages is pretty steep too!

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #244 on: November 27, 2017, 02:51:20 PM »
Getting things out for the trip over to the shovel this morning, wanted to finish up the side-track on the Lombard nameplate that I got last week. Started out by getting it cleaned, detailed the letter edges, and decided that clear coating it would not set it off properly, and that I would paint it. Started with some flat black auto lacquer spray, then a coat of a slightly metallic gray, then went back over the tops of the letters with some faux-gold-leaf paint. It worked out very simple to get good edges by applying it with the side of a round tapered toothpick - no issues with even a fine brush dropping over an edge and getting some on the sides.
Here it is with the first few letters done:


and the rest finished off:

Came out looking great. Here it is next to the model - amazing how much smaller 1:12th is!

« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 07:12:02 PM by crueby »

Offline paul gough

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #245 on: November 27, 2017, 03:24:58 PM »
Hi Chris,Very satisfying 'objets d'art', reminders of a wonderful creative journey. Regards, Paul Gough.

Offline Kim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #246 on: November 27, 2017, 04:14:37 PM »
Very nice looking, Chris!
Kim

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #247 on: November 27, 2017, 07:15:23 PM »
All right, back from the steam shovel, and got a big mug of hot chocolate to warm up the fingers again (its COLD out there today). I started at the controls in the cab, and took a series of pictures running all the way back to the boiler, following each control rod.

It turns out that second pedal is for the brake band on the main hoist, I had thought it was one of the levers connected there. One of the levers in the group of 3 is actually connected to the drain cocks on the main hoist and slew engine cylinders! I didn't think they had a control up to the operator, but turns out they do, they are underneath the cylinders, which are only an inch off the floor, and the moving parts of the valves are just under the floor plates. Also, the crowd engine up on the main boom DOES have a drain set on the cylinders, but the rod is missing at the lower end where it comes down to the turntable, and parts of the rest are covered in vines.

Next step is to diagram which lever is which, since I am sure I will keep forgetting!

Also, I found out what that odd round-topped set of fittings is at the back of the boiler. Turns out they are not hinges like I thought, but holders for the bottom ends of levers (now missing). From underneath, I saw that there are rods running forward into the ash dump sluice, and connect to the bottoms of the fire grates in the firebox - they are the controls to move the grates for air control and to dump the ashes.

So, a couple of hours poking around, LOTS more photos (gotta love digital cameras), and a lot of tracing of control rods, I think that now I have all I need to finish up the details on the 3D model (including verifying that the left front track holder IS different due to some repair plates welded on the sides, and also that there are some non-matching track sections on the left side front tracks - they must have broken it and repaired it in the quarry).

I'll post the diagram of the controls when I get that done later...

 :cheers:

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #248 on: November 28, 2017, 03:10:43 AM »
Sounds like a really successful day Chris. I bet it was fun going to look at it today.........knowing just what your were looking for.  :)

Jim

PS: That nameplate looks really sharp!  :ThumbsUp:
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"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #249 on: November 28, 2017, 03:22:43 AM »
Sounds like a really successful day Chris. I bet it was fun going to look at it today.........knowing just what your were looking for.  :)

Jim

PS: That nameplate looks really sharp!  :ThumbsUp:
Thanks Jim! I am really pleased with how it is going. It's amazing how many more little details that I saw today, after spending time with the first photo set and drawing as much as I could from them. Same thing happened with the Lombard, second day there filled in lots. I spent several times longer there today than I expected, kept going around/in/under and seeing more.


The 3d model is getting very complete, just 3 more links to do on the controls, and a few misc details. Very excited! Got a big pile of metal ordered, the ups guy is gonna hate me (as will whoever is getting the next box over on the conveyor belt).


I've also been drawing up some diagrams of how the shovel operates and how steam engines in general work for the historical society to use on the new signs they are going to put up by the fence. This spring more work will start on patching holes and getting it prepped for new paint on the outside, very exciting things!

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #250 on: November 28, 2017, 10:11:40 PM »
Linkages from the control handles to the main hoist stephenson links and the throttle valve on the slew engine are done, just need to make the links to the drain cocks on the hoist and slew engines, and the control rods will be done! Then a few small updates on some other parts to match what I found at the shovel yesterday, and the 3D drawings should be done.

Time for a cookie!  Oh, and dinner!
 ;D

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #251 on: November 29, 2017, 08:59:21 PM »
Today I got the last of the linkages done from the controls in the cab back to the engines/etc, and also made up the firebox grate assembly. The grates have an interesting shape, each panel has a curved top with diagonal slots, the bottoms have rectangular holes, and they all have a curved cross section with a hollow core. They pivot in the center of each one to allow dumping of the ash, and there is also a door at the bottom of the ash sluice that can be adjusted for air flow.
Here is a top view of the grates:

and a bottom view - the bars between the pivots get connected to rods moved from links in the cab behind the boiler backhead.


This completes the last of the parts (that I know of), and there is just one set of tweaks to the crosshead bearings to make, and the 3d model will be done (that I know of - sure there will be more discoveries later on). So, almost ready to make up a set of nice renderings of different views, inside and out, and make up labeled diagrams of all the controls for future reference... Then I can start generating the paper plans with dimensions.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 07:12:45 PM by crueby »

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #252 on: November 30, 2017, 09:20:46 PM »
Major milestone time - the 3D model is done, pending any future learnings or mistakes found!

 :whoohoo:

I've been experimenting with the 'render' feature in Fusion360, getting some interesting results so far. It looks like I need to experiment some more with the materials that I assign to the parts (have defaulted everything to a gray steel finish up till now) to get better contrast on things.

Here is a view of the inside of the machine:

I've got another render perking away now that is a close-up view of the control station that I am going to add labels for each control lever....
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 08:28:26 PM by crueby »

Offline 10KPete

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #253 on: November 30, 2017, 09:25:54 PM »
OMG! That's a most wonderful illustration!!   :o :o

I'm drooling on the keyboard.... can't wait to see 'details'.  :P :Love:

Pete
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Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #254 on: November 30, 2017, 09:38:57 PM »
Thanks Pete!  I am amazed how much better these renders look than the working views!

Here is a closeup of the operator control station, have not labelled the controls yet, will do that later on.

This shows the 6 levers, a pedal and a pull-up handle for the main operator, then up forward on the base of the boom you can see the lever for the crowd engine that the secondary operator would control - guess they did not come up with a suitable linkage to bring that back for the main operator, since the chain runs on the axis of the turntable.

I want to do some experimenting with the materials I assign to the parts, will generate more detail views in the next couple days...
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 08:28:37 PM by crueby »