Author Topic: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel  (Read 249158 times)

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #225 on: November 24, 2017, 11:07:27 PM »
Okay, I am stumped on this one....

Tracing through the controls, matching them up with the levers up at the front of the cab, and there is a foot pedal through the floor that I can't think of a reason for!

Okay, here are the items needing control from the front:
1) main hoist throttle
2) main hoist clutch (to engage drum)
3) main hoist fwd/reverse control (stephenson link)
4) main hoist brake
5) swing engine throttle/fwd/reverse (all in one)
6) steering engine throttle/fwd/reverse (all in one)
7) crowd engine throttle/fwd/reverse (all in one) - this is out on the turntable, controlled by 2nd operator
8 ) travel shaft dog clutch (to engage tracks to hoist engine)

Silly website - I had to put a space after the '8' or it turned it into a smiley!

That makes 7 controls from the cab running back, one out on the turntable
Here is where those controls are:
1) Main hoist throttle lever, hanging from roof on right
2) main hoist clutch lever -up from right side of floor
3) main hoist fwd/rev lever - one of 3 levers in group on floor
4) main hoist brake lever - one of 3 levers in group on floor
5) swing engine throttle lever - one of 3 levers in group on floor
6) steering engine throttle lever, hanging from roof on left
7) crowd engine lever - out on turntable
8 ) travel shaft dog clutch - handle coming up through floor, pulled up and latched to engage

(silly website - I had to put a space after the '8' or it turned that one into a smiley!!)

Problem is, there is ALSO a pedal that is shaped like the brake pedal on a car, between the set of 3 levers and the single lever on the floor. The shaft from that pedal looks to go through the floor, and down between the frames, but it never comes out of that space anywhere that I can find in any of the photos....
 :headscratch:

 :thinking:

 :noidea:

I can't think of another function that would need another control, can any of you?? Don't think it had a horn or headlights, no radio or power windows...  If there was a steam whistle it was stolen, the pull for that would just have been a rope from the ceiling anyway.

What else would there be??   :help:

The boiler engineers would handle all the feedwater/oiling/fuel controls from the back, there is a lubricator system but that was automatic from the engines. Don't think there was a nitrous system...

Any thoughts? Whoever thinks of the reason for the pedal wins a bag of mint chocolate chip cookies (may be supplied as a recipe 'kit' if not in easy mailing distance).

They wouldn't do this 100+ years ago just to mess with my head, would they? Or would they...  :hellno:

 :shrug:

Online Flyboy Jim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #226 on: November 24, 2017, 11:38:14 PM »
Okay, I am stumped on this one....

Tracing through the controls, matching them up with the levers up at the front of the cab, and there is a foot pedal through the floor that I can't think of a reason for!

Okay, here are the items needing control from the front:
1) main hoist throttle
2) main hoist clutch (to engage drum)
3) main hoist fwd/reverse control (stephenson link)
4) main hoist brake
5) swing engine throttle/fwd/reverse (all in one)
6) steering engine throttle/fwd/reverse (all in one)
7) crowd engine throttle/fwd/reverse (all in one) - this is out on the turntable, controlled by 2nd operator
8 ) travel shaft dog clutch (to engage tracks to hoist engine)

Silly website - I had to put a space after the '8' or it turned it into a smiley!

That makes 7 controls from the cab running back, one out on the turntable
Here is where those controls are:
1) Main hoist throttle lever, hanging from roof on right
2) main hoist clutch lever -up from right side of floor
3) main hoist fwd/rev lever - one of 3 levers in group on floor
4) main hoist brake lever - one of 3 levers in group on floor
5) swing engine throttle lever - one of 3 levers in group on floor
6) steering engine throttle lever, hanging from roof on left
7) crowd engine lever - out on turntable
8 ) travel shaft dog clutch - handle coming up through floor, pulled up and latched to engage

(silly website - I had to put a space after the '8' or it turned that one into a smiley!!)

Problem is, there is ALSO a pedal that is shaped like the brake pedal on a car, between the set of 3 levers and the single lever on the floor. The shaft from that pedal looks to go through the floor, and down between the frames, but it never comes out of that space anywhere that I can find in any of the photos....
 :headscratch:

 :thinking:

 :noidea:

I can't think of another function that would need another control, can any of you?? Don't think it had a horn or headlights, no radio or power windows...  If there was a steam whistle it was stolen, the pull for that would just have been a rope from the ceiling anyway.

What else would there be??   :help:

The boiler engineers would handle all the feedwater/oiling/fuel controls from the back, there is a lubricator system but that was automatic from the engines. Don't think there was a nitrous system...

Any thoughts? Whoever thinks of the reason for the pedal wins a bag of mint chocolate chip cookies (may be supplied as a recipe 'kit' if not in easy mailing distance).

They wouldn't do this 100+ years ago just to mess with my head, would they? Or would they...  :hellno:

 :shrug:

I'm thinking that the pedal was a quick release for the "stitterstat"...................well probably not!  :shrug:

OK....... I wonder if it could of connected up with one of the levers and done the same thing as the lever when the operator ran out of hands?

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill
"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #227 on: November 24, 2017, 11:44:55 PM »
Okay, I am stumped on this one....

Tracing through the controls, matching them up with the levers up at the front of the cab, and there is a foot pedal through the floor that I can't think of a reason for!

Okay, here are the items needing control from the front:
1) main hoist throttle
2) main hoist clutch (to engage drum)
3) main hoist fwd/reverse control (stephenson link)
4) main hoist brake
5) swing engine throttle/fwd/reverse (all in one)
6) steering engine throttle/fwd/reverse (all in one)
7) crowd engine throttle/fwd/reverse (all in one) - this is out on the turntable, controlled by 2nd operator
8 ) travel shaft dog clutch (to engage tracks to hoist engine)

Silly website - I had to put a space after the '8' or it turned it into a smiley!

That makes 7 controls from the cab running back, one out on the turntable
Here is where those controls are:
1) Main hoist throttle lever, hanging from roof on right
2) main hoist clutch lever -up from right side of floor
3) main hoist fwd/rev lever - one of 3 levers in group on floor
4) main hoist brake lever - one of 3 levers in group on floor
5) swing engine throttle lever - one of 3 levers in group on floor
6) steering engine throttle lever, hanging from roof on left
7) crowd engine lever - out on turntable
8 ) travel shaft dog clutch - handle coming up through floor, pulled up and latched to engage

(silly website - I had to put a space after the '8' or it turned that one into a smiley!!)

Problem is, there is ALSO a pedal that is shaped like the brake pedal on a car, between the set of 3 levers and the single lever on the floor. The shaft from that pedal looks to go through the floor, and down between the frames, but it never comes out of that space anywhere that I can find in any of the photos....
 :headscratch:

 :thinking:

 :noidea:

I can't think of another function that would need another control, can any of you?? Don't think it had a horn or headlights, no radio or power windows...  If there was a steam whistle it was stolen, the pull for that would just have been a rope from the ceiling anyway.

What else would there be??   :help:

The boiler engineers would handle all the feedwater/oiling/fuel controls from the back, there is a lubricator system but that was automatic from the engines. Don't think there was a nitrous system...

Any thoughts? Whoever thinks of the reason for the pedal wins a bag of mint chocolate chip cookies (may be supplied as a recipe 'kit' if not in easy mailing distance).

They wouldn't do this 100+ years ago just to mess with my head, would they? Or would they...  :hellno:

 :shrug:

I'm thinking that the pedal was a quick release for the "stitterstat"...................well probably not!  :shrug:

OK....... I wonder if it could of connected up with one of the levers and done the same thing as the lever when the operator ran out of hands?

Jim
Don't think so, since it's lever goes on past into another chamber, and the other levers  are driven horizontally, but maybe there is another bell crank down there? I'll mark that as a maybe, pending more info. Hmmm...


This is payback for me thinking that I had all the photos I needed! I guess 844 was one shy of what was needed! Fortunately the director out there said I could borrow the key to the gate if I needed to get back in.


Any other ideas, anyone?

Offline RJH

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #228 on: November 24, 2017, 11:48:49 PM »
How about a control to open the door on the bucket?

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #229 on: November 24, 2017, 11:55:11 PM »
How about a control to open the door on the bucket?
That's done by a rope coming back from the bucket latch  through a pulley on the main boom, and tied off at the turntable. The second operator on the turntable controlled the crowd engine and pulled the rope to drop the bucket door. It must have needed some close coordination and skill from the two operators!


 :thinking:

Offline kvom

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #230 on: November 25, 2017, 12:51:37 AM »
Is there any sort of "parking brake" for the shovel when not operating?  Possibly to release a latch or pawl.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #231 on: November 25, 2017, 12:58:36 AM »
Is there any sort of "parking brake" for the shovel when not operating?  Possibly to release a latch or pawl.
Hmm. Not that I know of, but it would be bad to come back to the quarry Monday morning and see it had rolled into the bottom of the pit!


The location of the pedal is about 12 feet in front of the travel shaft, should be easy to spot a link, will double check that in case you are right.


Could it be a brake pedal left over from when it was on railroad trucks? Those were usually screw actuated from a handwheel though.


Hmmm, a 110,000 pound steam shovel doing a parking brake turn!

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #232 on: November 25, 2017, 01:54:17 PM »
Is there any sort of "parking brake" for the shovel when not operating?  Possibly to release a latch or pawl.
Hmm. Not that I know of, but it would be bad to come back to the quarry Monday morning and see it had rolled into the bottom of the pit!


The location of the pedal is about 12 feet in front of the travel shaft, should be easy to spot a link, will double check that in case you are right.


Could it be a brake pedal left over from when it was on railroad trucks? Those were usually screw actuated from a handwheel though.


Hmmm, a 110,000 pound steam shovel doing a parking brake turn!
Hi Kvom - took a look through the pictures, and there is nothing leading down to the travel shaft or gears, so it it not some sort of brake, unless it is left over from the previous railroad trucks.

Jim's idea of a latch for one of the other levers is still a possibility.

I've put in a request to borrow the key and get back in for some more pictures in that area - I have ones close to right, but there are other things blocking the one key spot I need to see. Sigh... I need to go see the steam shovel again, so sad!   ::)

Offline steamboatmodel

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #233 on: November 25, 2017, 06:19:17 PM »
Is it possible that it is a brake set/release that has to be depressed when the leaver is moved something like the clutch on a manual gearshift?
Ps If you find me on Facebook I posted my recipe for shortbread.
Gerald.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors--and miss. Lazarus Long

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #234 on: November 25, 2017, 07:32:05 PM »
Is it possible that it is a brake set/release that has to be depressed when the leaver is moved something like the clutch on a manual gearshift?
Ps If you find me on Facebook I posted my recipe for shortbread.
Gerald.
Its possible. One of the other levers has the release lever on the handle part, which engages a notched rail at the bottom, but its possible that broke on one of the other levers and the pedal was added.
I heard back from the director, and I'll be able to borrow the key and head out there tomorrow or monday and get more pictures to know for sure - going to take a bunch of pictures up underneath that frame bay! Also, I could use a couple more of the hoist drum brake band levers, that did not come out well from the first trip.

Will let you guys know!

Online Flyboy Jim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #235 on: November 25, 2017, 09:34:48 PM »
Is it possible that it is a brake set/release that has to be depressed when the leaver is moved something like the clutch on a manual gearshift?
Ps If you find me on Facebook I posted my recipe for shortbread.
Gerald.
Its possible. One of the other levers has the release lever on the handle part, which engages a notched rail at the bottom, but its possible that broke on one of the other levers and the pedal was added.
I heard back from the director, and I'll be able to borrow the key and head out there tomorrow or monday and get more pictures to know for sure - going to take a bunch of pictures up underneath that frame bay! Also, I could use a couple more of the hoist drum brake band levers, that did not come out well from the first trip.

Will let you guys know!

I can almost taste those cookies already!  :LickLips:

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill
"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #236 on: November 25, 2017, 10:33:02 PM »
Is it possible that it is a brake set/release that has to be depressed when the leaver is moved something like the clutch on a manual gearshift?
Ps If you find me on Facebook I posted my recipe for shortbread.
Gerald.
Its possible. One of the other levers has the release lever on the handle part, which engages a notched rail at the bottom, but its possible that broke on one of the other levers and the pedal was added.
I heard back from the director, and I'll be able to borrow the key and head out there tomorrow or monday and get more pictures to know for sure - going to take a bunch of pictures up underneath that frame bay! Also, I could use a couple more of the hoist drum brake band levers, that did not come out well from the first trip.

Will let you guys know!

I can almost taste those cookies already!  :LickLips:

Jim
Well, mine MAY be on thier way to someone Monday afternoon. Or not, depending on what I find out at lunchtime when I get back in to see what is what! Hows that old saying go, Dont count your cookies before they are baked. Or hatched. Something like that...  :Lol:

In the meantime, we can go check Gerald's recipe - mine was posted over on the Lombard thread a while back, can repost it here if desired too.

I heard back, can borrow the key to the gate and go get more pictures and measurements Monday.   :whoohoo:

 :cheers:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #237 on: November 26, 2017, 08:04:43 PM »
While waiting to get back out to the Marion tomorrow (  :cartwheel: ), I've been catching up on drawing the last parts in 3D that I know all the measurements for (steam lines to/from crowd engine, crowd engine levers, hand levers in cab).

One fitting at the boiler I can draw, but I am not really sure what it is for. This is what it looks like, a fitting with a rotary hinge that appears to have held a strap to another part that is no longer there:


The hole in the floor makes me think it is for a hinged flap to cover the cleanout in the floor, but that is a guess. The hole is below the firebox door - the firebox has its own door, hinged to open to the right, with a latch on the left. This fitting would not connect to the firebox door, but is it for a cleanout, for some sort of ramp or funnel shape to help scoop coal into the firebox? I have not seen this particular setup on locomotives. Any clues what its really for?

Thanks!

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 07:11:32 PM by crueby »

Offline MMan

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #238 on: November 26, 2017, 10:10:55 PM »
Hi Chris,

Have you found how they do cylinder drain valves on all these engines yet? Have they automated in some way or is there a whole extra layer of controls for each engine?

just wondering if the operator was supposed to keep track of draining each engine everytime they used it.

All the best,

Martin.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #239 on: November 26, 2017, 10:41:25 PM »
Hi Chris,

Have you found how they do cylinder drain valves on all these engines yet? Have they automated in some way or is there a whole extra layer of controls for each engine?

just wondering if the operator was supposed to keep track of draining each engine everytime they used it.

All the best,

Martin.
The main hoist cylinders have drain cocks at each end, connected with a control rod as usual on a loco  but those rods did not go up to the operator in the cab, must have been one of the boiler tenders that manually moved them. The vertical steering engine, next to the boiler backhead, also has the same setup. It's the crowd and slew engines that were hard to find drains on.
The slew engine had a bit too much raccoon, um,... exhaust, for me to dig under.
The crowd engine was in an angle where I did get pictures of the drains under the cylinders. There are remains of metal strips that may have been the actuating lever, but that bar is pretty rusted. So, drains are there on ghe cylinder ends, no drain for the internal passages though, that I can see.