Author Topic: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel  (Read 251125 times)

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #195 on: November 19, 2017, 05:36:30 PM »
Great show, well done.
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #196 on: November 19, 2017, 08:02:10 PM »
This afternoon I started taking measurements from the real track plates, and drawing them up in 3D. What a mind-bender these are turning out to be, they are castings with hollow areas and ribs on the back side, with protrusions for the hinge pins, and the tops are tapered at the sides. Here is a picture of the back side of the real thing:

Quite a few features to it - it fits over a tapered rim of the guide wheel, and the same notch rides on an extruded rail along the straight sections of the track frame. The angled portions are used by the rear guide wheel to drive the track - it has sections of the wheel that stick out between the angled parts of each track.

And here the sketches so far in Fusion. Normally I just do a single-plane sketch and extrude from that, but this time I think it will be a combination of extrusions from each view, along with some extrusions being used to cut away the parts from the other views, like a router blade would do.

I think I've gotten all the shapes I need, going to let the brain cool off and come back to this tomorrow - have our monthly RC submarine run at the pool tonight!
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 07:08:20 PM by crueby »

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #197 on: November 20, 2017, 10:56:40 PM »
Wow. What a brain-bender the track plate turned out to be! It is quite a complex cast shape, and even with about 15 photos with measurements that I took, it was still a bunch of trial-and-error to get it right since I could not take a plate out to look at it directly from underneath.

I spent the day drawing up three sketches in Fusion, and creating a set of 'moulds' for it to use to cut away the block I created for the track, much in the way it would have been cast. It definitely was quicker in the long run since I could keep going back and tweaking the sketches, letting the application re-apply the extrusions/cuts for me, till it came out right.

Here are some screen grabs of the track piece:






Hey, Shop-Elves, yeah, you there, with the pointy hat! Where did you put my chocolate chip cookies! I need some!!
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 07:08:27 PM by crueby »

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #198 on: November 21, 2017, 03:15:12 AM »
Some even more exciting news than getting the track plate design working (at least for me). The gentleman who cast the replacement boiler front numberplate for the Lombard Hauler at the museum in Maine got a copy of it cast for me in bronze, and its on its way to me. Full size copy, from the same pattern he made for the original.


 :whoohoo:    :pinkelephant:    :cartwheel:


Pics when it arrives..

Offline Kim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #199 on: November 21, 2017, 03:18:16 AM »
That is pretty cool, Chris!
Something to be excited about for sure!  ;D
Kim

Offline 10KPete

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #200 on: November 21, 2017, 04:00:40 AM »
You betcha there'd better be lots of pictures!

Man, that's special.

Pete'
Craftsman, Tinkerer, Curious Person.
Retired, finally!
SB 10K lathe, Benchmaster mill. And stuff.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #201 on: November 21, 2017, 08:30:05 PM »
Biggining to take on its final look - got the track sets drawn up for the right side of the shovel, still need to make the track frames and road wheels for them.

The front tracks bolt on where the original wide-stance jacks were, to stabilize the machine as the main boom swings to the side. The rear tracks are set narrow, on the swivel that originally held the railroad wheel truck. The rear set is turned side to side by the steering engine and worm gear at the back, the front set is driven by the hoist engine when a second clutch is engaged.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 07:08:42 PM by crueby »

Offline Kim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #202 on: November 21, 2017, 11:58:29 PM »
Chris,
Do the front tracks turn at all? Or do they stay fixed and only the rear tracks turn to steer the crane?
Kim

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #203 on: November 22, 2017, 12:12:09 AM »
Chris,
Do the front tracks turn at all? Or do they stay fixed and only the rear tracks turn to steer the crane?
Kim
The front tracks are fixed at straight ahead, and move together (no differential), the rear tracks do the steering. The rear tracks freewheel, the fronts are driven. On the original rail trucks, the wheels at both ends ran off a chain drive, for the tracks it's geared to drive shafts. Its a much simpler mechanism than machines eith one pair of tracks that are individually controllable.

Both front and rear tracks can pitch forward and back on their axles as they go over bumps, but there is no spring suspension, so a very rough ride!

One thing that threw me at first when measuring was the presence of a number of crude repairs to the left front track and its support frame. There is also evidence of some major repairs to the front of the main frame, its possible that two of these shovels were combined to get one working one. There was a second one at this quarry, nothing known of what happened to it.

Offline Kim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #204 on: November 22, 2017, 12:37:53 AM »
Thanks Chris, I believe I follow now.

And, you're trying to document the original configuration of a cobbled-together Frankenstein machine!  That's got to make things a little more difficult!

Kim

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #205 on: November 22, 2017, 12:55:07 AM »
Thanks Chris, I believe I follow now.

And, you're trying to document the original configuration of a cobbled-together Frankenstein machine!  That's got to make things a little more difficult!

Kim
At least they used two identical machines, so its not a ChevroFordUick!   :Lol:

Offline Steam Haulage

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #206 on: November 22, 2017, 08:44:04 AM »
Hi Chris,

As you know already I have been inspired by your recent work on the very successful Lombard and now the Marion Shovel.

Your 3D drawings in Fusion 360 give a great example of what can be achieved with realistic and detailed illustrations of the workings of these rather complex machines. I am still working with my thoughts on Ruston-Bucyrus Shovels which in many ways are similar to Marion's products.

It seems that much of the original information on the R-B designs has been lost along with those of Ruston & Hornsby as a result of the takeovers by English Electric and then Siemens, neither of which were likely to have an interest in shovels. However I am still collecting whatever I can find, including various sources which have found their way to the Antipodes.

I have been a user of Autodesk Inventor for some time and I want to compare the results from that very expensive programme with your work with the free ( for hobbyists) Fusion 360 which originates from the same software house.  I wonder whether Inventor which has all sorts of bells and whistles but was 'invented' some years ago would perform as well as Fusion 360 which surely must have more up-to-date origins. :headscratch:

Sorry to hijack your thread.
Jerry
Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you, pigs treat you as equal.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #207 on: November 22, 2017, 01:11:00 PM »
Hi Chris,

As you know already I have been inspired by your recent work on the very successful Lombard and now the Marion Shovel.

Your 3D drawings in Fusion 360 give a great example of what can be achieved with realistic and detailed illustrations of the workings of these rather complex machines. I am still working with my thoughts on Ruston-Bucyrus Shovels which in many ways are similar to Marion's products.

It seems that much of the original information on the R-B designs has been lost along with those of Ruston & Hornsby as a result of the takeovers by English Electric and then Siemens, neither of which were likely to have an interest in shovels. However I am still collecting whatever I can find, including various sources which have found their way to the Antipodes.

I have been a user of Autodesk Inventor for some time and I want to compare the results from that very expensive programme with your work with the free ( for hobbyists) Fusion 360 which originates from the same software house.  I wonder whether Inventor which has all sorts of bells and whistles but was 'invented' some years ago would perform as well as Fusion 360 which surely must have more up-to-date origins. :headscratch:

Sorry to hijack your thread.
Jerry
Hi Jerry!

Seems to be a common problem with the old equipment manufacturers - when they got bought, sold, re-sold, the documents and plans wound up at the dump along the way since the new owners didn't have any use or care for the old products, sometimes just wanted the company name. I've found a few copies of the old Marion catalogs online at some of the museums and libraries (the Carnegie Library has a big section of old trade catalogs). In those days the catalog was not just a short listing for each product, they spent page after page detailing how their product worked and differed from the others, they are a gold mine of details sometimes. Other than that, if you can find a museum or collector group who has a similar machine and make contact, you can get a lot of information. If it was not for the machine near me here, the best guess at the inner workings would have been from buying HO and O gauge model kits and studying them - sometimes they have a lot of details, but are also sometimes simplified down since they were often drawn from old photos.

Fusion is my first experience with 3D CAD applications, so I don't have any comparison to the others. I'm sure there is a lot of commonality in what they do, probably differences in how Fusion presents things since they started over with its development. Autodesk is still adding features to fusion on a regular basis, I am hoping they keep the hobbyist access to it once they consider it a mature product, it is a huge savings for an individual hobbyist with limited funding.

 :cheers:
Chris

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #208 on: November 22, 2017, 04:03:06 PM »
Another major milestone in the 3D model for the Marion, got the front track frames sketched and made:

I think that there are just four items remaining for the 3d model:
- rear track frames
- drive shafts for front tracks
- steering engine
- controls and linkages to engines/valves/clutches

Once those are done I can generate the paper plans for the full-size machine, then get started on scaling them down for the model!

Getting close to cutting metal!   :cartwheel:
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 07:09:23 PM by crueby »

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #209 on: November 22, 2017, 06:41:34 PM »
Are you planning to live long enough to make a model of this, or are you going to pass it on to your children and grandchildren----and maybe even your great grandchildren?