Author Topic: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel  (Read 249551 times)

Offline Steamer5

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #60 on: October 19, 2017, 07:35:27 AM »
I'm drooling over those CAD pics!! I don' t think I have seen that level of detail before.

And the proper term is "dip stick". I grew up with earth moving as Dad was with CAT.

Many years ago I went to the coast in California where a guy had a steam shovel that he and his friends fired up a few times a year and dug around the guys sand pit. I actually got to work the thing and dig for about a half hour. They let anyone who wanted to try it out, do it!!!

I don't think there's enough pop corn between here and New Zealand to feed the crown watching this build.

Pete

Pete,
Maybe if we all go on a  :popcorn: diet we can eek it out until  Chris gets it fired up & he can happily dig up several fields & we can resume normal excessive consumption!,

Chris,
 Those drawings are just looking splendid! The guys are going to get a great set forvery little cost, kudos to you!

Cheers Kerrin
Get excited and make something!

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #61 on: October 19, 2017, 10:11:28 PM »
Todays update to the 3D model, more details on the bucket yoke block straps (which bump out in the center around the shaft and needed through bolts), and added the swing and hoist chains.





« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 06:56:06 PM by crueby »

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #62 on: October 20, 2017, 12:04:47 AM »
Another impressive drawing Chris.

I've been trying to figure out if the main boom raises up and down?

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill
"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #63 on: October 20, 2017, 12:18:46 AM »
Another impressive drawing Chris.

I've been trying to figure out if the main boom raises up and down?

Jim
No - the main boom is at a fixed angle, it just swings side to side.

The smaller boom pivots up and down as the bucket chain is run in and out. There is also going to be another steam engine on the main boom, just below the smaller one, that drives a small gear that engages a gear rack along the bottom of the smaller boom, which makes it extend in and out from the pivot point. That is where they get the rest of the motion on the bucket - a very different mechanism than they use today on things like backhoes.

This video shows the actions nicely - different model machine, but same style booms:

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2017, 03:14:34 AM »
Another impressive drawing Chris.

I've been trying to figure out if the main boom raises up and down?

Jim
No - the main boom is at a fixed angle, it just swings side to side.

The smaller boom pivots up and down as the bucket chain is run in and out. There is also going to be another steam engine on the main boom, just below the smaller one, that drives a small gear that engages a gear rack along the bottom of the smaller boom, which makes it extend in and out from the pivot point. That is where they get the rest of the motion on the bucket - a very different mechanism than they use today on things like backhoes.

This video shows the actions nicely - different model machine, but same style booms:

Great video Chris. Makes total sense now.

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill
"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline 10KPete

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #65 on: October 20, 2017, 06:38:03 AM »
The dip stick engine drives the crowd spur gear which drives a rack gear on the bottom of the dip stick. Dip stick UP to bring the bucket closer to the house, dip stick DOWN to crowd the bucket into the bank.

I just love this stuff!!!   :whoohoo: :pinkelephant: :cartwheel:

 :cheers:

Pete
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SB 10K lathe, Benchmaster mill. And stuff.

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2017, 03:20:30 PM »
The dip stick engine drives the crowd spur gear which drives a rack gear on the bottom of the dip stick. Dip stick UP to bring the bucket closer to the house, dip stick DOWN to crowd the bucket into the bank.

I just love this stuff!!!   :whoohoo: :pinkelephant: :cartwheel:

 :cheers:

Pete
I think you just wrote the first lyrics to the steam shovel song!


Or: the dipsticks connected to the... Rack gear. The rack gears connected to the... spur gear...  :ROFL:

Offline wagnmkr

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2017, 03:59:18 PM »
Errr ... Thanks Chris. That song is in my head now :lolb:

Tom
I was cut out to be rich ... but ... I was sown up all wrong!

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #68 on: October 20, 2017, 04:04:14 PM »
Errr ... Thanks Chris. That song is in my head now :lolb:

Tom


 :whoohoo:

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #69 on: October 20, 2017, 06:09:28 PM »
Drew up the Shipper gear, shaft, and holder - this is the large gear set that the crowding engine drives to move the dipper handle in and out. I got the name 'Shipper' from Marion's own catalogs of this engine, not sure where that term comes from but that is what they call it. The catalog also calls the dip stick the 'dipper handle', so those are the terms I am going to use from now on, different terms were used in different eras and regions but that is the terminology that the manufacturer used.
Anyway, new images:




This completes, I think, the turntable and boom assembly, except for the crowd engine itselft, which will sit just behind the dipper shaft. That will be modelled up later on, after I get in to get more detailed photos next month. Same for the track assemblies, the photos I have now do not show enough internal details.

For now, I think I will move on to measuring up and sketching the main drive gears and drums inside the cab. Also need to prep the sub for a meet at the pool this weekend...

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 06:58:42 PM by crueby »

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #70 on: October 20, 2017, 07:44:10 PM »
Hi Chris

Everything in coming along nicely, Fusion sure does a nice job on the chains! Do the gears have an involute tooth form? in the pictures they appear to be more flat?
Not that is matters but I do like the pictures better without the grid, I find it kind of distracting.

Keep up the great work!
Dave

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #71 on: October 20, 2017, 08:01:43 PM »
Hi Chris

Everything in coming along nicely, Fusion sure does a nice job on the chains! Do the gears have an involute tooth form? in the pictures they appear to be more flat?
Not that is matters but I do like the pictures better without the grid, I find it kind of distracting.

Keep up the great work!
Dave
They are an involute tooth, at this resolution that does not show up well. The rack teeth are flat sided though.  The teeth on the original were some involute form, though they are so worn its hard to tell! They got a LOT of use by the looks of things, several decades in the quarry will do that.

The grid is there for the ground plane by default, I have not bothered turning that off for the captures since it is buried down a layer or so in the menus.  Better you don't get too distracted or you will... oops, you just crashed... oh well!   :Lol:

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #72 on: October 20, 2017, 11:52:13 PM »
I started going through the photos and other materials to figure out the gear trains that come from the cranksshafts and to the chain drums and tracks. One thing I had was a set of partial plans that someone else had started about 10 years ago.

Perfect argument for not trusting others plans, and going directly to the source material where possible: The number of teeth he had on several of the gears was wrong, and found one gear on the back side of the driving gear, should have been on the front side - explains why the end of the gear train I came up with (which he only had the first couple of gears shown) was not reaching the front axle!

Once past that, I now have a diagram of all the gears for the swing, hoist, and travel gears. Lots of stuff in there, including brake bands and drum clutches. Still need to figure out where the clutch is for the travel gears, which are driven from the main hoist drum shaft. It might be in the drum assembly, or later on in the gear train - need to do more digging in the photos, may need to read through the Marion patent documents.

Hmmm, took one more look in the Marion catalog, and found this paragraph:

"THE MARION PROPELLING SHAFT
THIS shaft, like others subjected to hard duty, is of the best hammered steel. It is attached underneath
to the car frame by two steel bearings secured by suitable bolt and shear plates to the
center sills. It is driven by a pinion on the hoisting drum shaft in mesh with the propelling gear,
which is riveted to a long sleeve casting keyed to the shaft. The other end of the sleeve casing forms
one member of a jaw clutch, and this engages a similar jaw cast into the side of a double pocket sheave,
wdiich is bronze bushed and loosely mounted on the shaft. This clutch is operated by a lever within
easy reach of the engineer.
"

That is a huge clue as to how it works, now need to track that down in the photos.... The catalogs are a incredible source of information.

EDIT: Found it! There is an idler shaft in the middle of the travel gear train, with a small spur gear and a larger gear driven from the previous shaft. The shaft between appears to be in two parts, once running inside the other. Where it steps down from the larger diameter side, there is a 3-section socket, looks like the 3 jaws of a chuck. On the smaller diameter side, there is a mating set of 3 sections on a slider, with a lever that will push it in and out of the other section to engage/disengage the drive. Hardly a smooth transition, imagine it was a heavy CLUNK as it engaged, but it was only done at slow speed when the machine was moved into a new location to dig. I'll get it drawn up and post some diagrams....
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 12:01:45 AM by crueby »

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #73 on: October 21, 2017, 03:44:53 AM »
Good work Sherlock!  :ThumbsUp: Looking forward to the drawings so I can understand what you're talking about.  ;)

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill
"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #74 on: October 21, 2017, 03:53:30 AM »
Good work Sherlock!  :ThumbsUp: Looking forward to the drawings so I can understand what you're talking about.  ;)

Jim
Yup, will post drawings and a picture of the real thing, simple when you see it, hard to describe. Picture, words, 1000...