Author Topic: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel  (Read 299125 times)

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #975 on: March 30, 2018, 10:32:04 PM »
Made up the last few bits for the main boom this afternoon - the turnbuckles for holding the base into the saddle, and the eyebolts to hold the ends of the slewing chain. The turnbuckle ends were bent from some steel rod, the end overlapped back on the shank, and the end was sawn off at the same angle as the shank with a jewelers saw.

After cutting, the end was bent down to lie against the shank, and then the joint was silver soldered, an extra blob of solder applied to blend it in.

The two ends that go against the boom go through little plates, so those plates were inserted before soldering. Here are the parts, two turnbuckle end sets and the eyebolts. The eyebolts were left open for now, will be closed up after the chain has been inserted much later on in the build (need to have the frame, cab, gear trains, and winding drums made before I can thread the chains around).

The middle sections for the turnbuckles were made up out of a bit of brass bar stock and everything installed.
Now, I do not have a left-handed 2-56 tap and die set, so I made both ends of the turnbuckle with right hand threads. Obviously they will not tighten up by turning the middle section, so it will just take a little adjustment before final install to get the lenght right. The threaded section of the ends were left long for now, just in case the distance to the shackles on the turntable is any longer than designed. Shouldn't be, but better safe than sorry later.

I think that finishes up the main boom for now. The crowd engine and its piping will be made later, and the upper stay braces can't be finished up till the A-frame is made. So, next step will be to start in on the turntable, with the saddle block base assembly up first.

Its a rather large part, too big for any metal bars I have on hand, so I went back to the 3D model and split the bodies into sections, with the main middle section being 1"x1", so I can make it from some 1" square brass bar that I have a length of. The section behind it with the angled notches is a hollow shell made from sheet metal, and the base plate it all sits on is 0.0625 plate. The curved section will be milled from some larger bar - that is what the bottom end of the boom sits against, like in this view:

Should be an interesting set to fabricate, probably will all be silver soldered together, which could be a challenge with the heavy block surrounded by thinner plates. May need some holding jigs for it, something to be worked out...
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 09:17:12 PM by crueby »

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #976 on: March 30, 2018, 10:34:19 PM »
After I looked again at that last rendering, realized there is one other last bit to make on the boom, the small pulley that the bucket door release rope threads through!

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #977 on: March 31, 2018, 11:16:12 PM »
This morning I got a start on the first piece of the turntable base saddle - once again, here is where it is going:

First part being made is the quarter-round section in the middle of that picture. I could have made it from some flat bar stock, but it would have meant doing a deep (the section is over 2" long") boring operation on the rotary table, as an interupted cut in a thin piece of metal, which I did not have confidence in doing without it flexing and ruining the part. After some noodling around in Fusion 3D to come up with a sequence that would result in the part without TOO much wasted stock (I have lots of brass round bar that I picked up cheap several years ago as drops), I came up with this sequence:


So, I started with a 1-1/4" round bar of brass, turned one end to 1-1/16" to fit in my largest 5C collet, and bored the other end in the lathe, offset from center by 0.100" to leave room for the flat sections in the bar.

The line down the side was drawn on before removing it from the chuck, to mark the thin edge so it could be put closest to one side of the square collet holder. With the base held in the collet (the part stayed locked in the collet through all these steps) and the thin side up, took some passes with the mill down each side, halfway up the bored hole, till it just broke through the inside.

Then the end of that section was hacksawn through next to the collet to release it.

The collet holder was turned over and the flat put in on the back side, milling down in stages till the flat was 0.062" from the center hole.

Then the collet holder was turned 90 degrees, and that side milled off till it just went tangent to the center hole. That edge forms the bottom of the curve, where it will meet the base plate later.

With those two flats done, then the collet holder was rotated 180 degrees in the vise, and the top edge milled off until it was 0.802" tall from there to the base flat.

Almost there - last milling in this sequence was to lower the cutter until it was halfway down the center hole, and mill the face back to form the vertical face. As each step in the sequence was done, I took lighter and lighter cuts since there was less support to the part, but there was no chatter or flexing.

Here is another view of the part at that stage, with the holder removed from the vise:

All that was left was to saw off the part and take a light pass on the end to take it to final length. Here it is sitting with the square block that it will be soldered to, next to the base of the main boom where it will be in the model:

Seems like a long way to go for a simple-looking part, but I'm not sure how else I could have made it with the equipment I have - the faceplate on the Sherline is not very good for this type of interrupted cut  boring, too much flex. It really did not take that long to do, but it probably is the lowest yield of part-to-raw-stock I've ever done!
Next up is a simple part, the main square block, just need to trim it to size and drill a big hole for the turntable pivot.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 09:17:24 PM by crueby »

Offline J.L.

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #978 on: April 01, 2018, 01:31:08 PM »
Hi Chris,

I wanted to show my wife the making of the brasss gears starting on page 63. I talked her through the process from the 1/4" x 4" brass disks as we scrolled down to you holding the gear in place. She was enthralled.

But then we came upon a little video of you operating the parts of the boom and bucket. What a treat.

You must be so pleased with the smooth operation of the parts made thus far. This is indeed a museum bound project. Perhaps I missed it, but the caretakers of the original machine rusting in the field must have approached you about having this completed model on permanent display.

Cheers...John

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #979 on: April 01, 2018, 03:02:09 PM »
Hi Chris,

I wanted to show my wife the making of the brasss gears starting on page 63. I talked her through the process from the 1/4" x 4" brass disks as we scrolled down to you holding the gear in place. She was enthralled.

But then we came upon a little video of you operating the parts of the boom and bucket. What a treat.

You must be so pleased with the smooth operation of the parts made thus far. This is indeed a museum bound project. Perhaps I missed it, but the caretakers of the original machine rusting in the field must have approached you about having this completed model on permanent display.

Cheers...John

Thanks very much John!

It was both a treat and a big relief when the boom moved so well by turning the gears - one of those things where it SHOULD work, but there is always concern about things binding up.

The historical society does not really have a suitable place for the model (at least at this point), but I have definitely promised them the loan of it for any events they want to show it at. The parts so far will be shown at a fundraising meeting in about a month, along with a talk about it and the process. They may have a spot for it at some point - they run the Jello museum in an old house in LeRoy now - LeRoy is the original home of Jello!

 :cheers:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #980 on: April 01, 2018, 03:05:39 PM »
Well, it pays to have wacky friends! One just sent me this drawing for a fun Easter project.... Could make a steam powered bunny bean maker! Those of you with gardens will know what bunny beans are...


« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 09:17:41 PM by crueby »

Offline Farmboy

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #981 on: April 01, 2018, 04:59:59 PM »
Don't think that can be right . . . I'm sure the Easter Bunny lays chocolate eggs  :LickLips:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #982 on: April 01, 2018, 07:22:12 PM »
Don't think that can be right . . . I'm sure the Easter Bunny lays chocolate eggs  :LickLips:


Appearances can be deceiving!   :lolb:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #983 on: April 01, 2018, 08:43:18 PM »
Today the large block in the center of the base assembly was milled down to size from some 1"x1" brass bar, and some 1/16" flat steel was cut to shape for the plate to form the bottom layer. I did not have any wide enough to do it in one piece, so there are two - you can just see the joint at about the 2-1/2" mark on the ruler in this photo, with the pieces set in place.

Having the back section a seperate piece worked out okay, since it gave a good way to make and attach the rear boxed in section. I cut some 1/16" flat stock  for the top/sides/back, and screwed them to some brass stock to hold them for silver soldering.

There are two pieces of brass, one to hold the outer shell, the other smaller piece (so it wont get stuck on when soldered) to hold the back wall.

The brass parts were coated with some NicroBraze, which is a nifty substance that keeps the silver solder from running anywhere the NicroBraze is. Some people use WhiteOut for this, but it can form a really hard glass layer that is hard to remove, where the NicroBraze will come off with the pickling/brushing step. So, with that on and dried, everything was screwed together and silver soldered. As you can see, the brass parts and the screws came right out.

After a pickle soak and some wire brushing, the section where the brass plates were was sawn off.

A quick couple passes on the mill and some filing, the sawn faces of the parts were smoothed out and test fit with the other blocks in the assembly:



Now it will be clamped up and hole drilled/tapped to join the pieces from underneath with some countersunk screws and some loctite for good measure. Still need to attach the lugs on the side for the braces up to the turntable floor plates, and bore the center hole for the pivot.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 09:17:51 PM by crueby »

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #984 on: April 01, 2018, 11:55:38 PM »
I'm still watching Chris.
Haven't said much...maybe I'm getting bored.

Not!
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #985 on: April 02, 2018, 12:07:36 AM »
I'm still watching Chris.
Haven't said much...maybe I'm getting bored.

Not!
:cheers:

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #986 on: April 02, 2018, 02:00:21 AM »
Chris--I'm assuming that you are related to the Rockafellers, or else have your own private brass mine. The price of brass has got scary here in Ontario. I did a little research trying to find why it was so expensive, and found that it seems the existing copper mines in the world are running out of copper, and no new copper deposits have been discovered, and that is whats driving the cost of brass so high.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #987 on: April 02, 2018, 02:34:24 AM »
Chris--I'm assuming that you are related to the Rockafellers, or else have your own private brass mine. The price of brass has got scary here in Ontario. I did a little research trying to find why it was so expensive, and found that it seems the existing copper mines in the world are running out of copper, and no new copper deposits have been discovered, and that is whats driving the cost of brass so high.

Not the Rockafellers, more like those SillyFellersOverThere!   :Lol:

I don't usually buy bar stock just for an engine at the moment, over the years I've haunted the commercial suppliers like Yarde Metals, who have a section called the 'Drop Zone' on their website where they sell large bar stock in 3 or 4 foot lengths as offcuts from their normal sales to factories. It is usually up to 1/2 off normal prices - it was even better till last year when they fixed their shipping calculator - they were charging like $5 or $10 for an order, even if it was 60 or 70 pounds and shipped in 6 different tubes from 3 different warehouses! Was great for getting the larger stock I am using, like the 1" square bar, 2-1/2" round bar, 1/2"x6" flat stock even, that stuff was dirt cheap. Once, before SmallParts got bought by Amazon, they were closing out stock and I got bundles of brass rod up to 1/2" diameter, 3' long, a buck each. Bought em out. Check with the commercial suppliers, local or on the web, they often will sell offcuts dirt cheap to clear the bin - you have to ask, not usually on the normal website, though Yarde is one exception to that. Other places, like OnlineMetals, have reasonable prices usually, but the shipping can be a killer - I am on the email list for places like that, a couple times a year they have big sales, sometimes with shipping cuts, and I'll stock up on things I use a lot of. Other times, when I just need a couple small sizes, places like McMaster are handy, they ship out of Syracuse (next city over from Rochester), so it shows up next day.
Anyway, I tend to stock up on bar stock on sales, in larger sizes/longer lengths, and use it for the next several models. Also, with the articles in Live Steam on the Lombard (and whatever follows), my supplies are being funded by those payments, which is nice when living on a pension!

Wow - that was a long reply! Anyway, short version: buy it when its cheap, not when you need it the next day.

 :cheers:

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #988 on: April 02, 2018, 04:33:53 AM »
Hi Chris , good work there and i have a lot of stock metals from car boot sales,  Traction engine rallies and also for short bits from the gear cutting firm that is quite close,  they always have shortish

 offcuts in a range of materials ....

Willy

Offline Steam Haulage

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #989 on: April 02, 2018, 09:46:22 AM »
Chris
I am intrigued by yout mention of Nicobraze, do you mean one of theri 'stop-off' grades?
Jerry
Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you, pigs treat you as equal.