Author Topic: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel  (Read 311923 times)

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4125 on: June 19, 2019, 02:47:11 PM »
What is inside all of the small tubes. Is it steam, water, or does the larger surface area conduct greater heat from whatever is burning to the water.

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4126 on: June 19, 2019, 03:27:27 PM »
What is inside all of the small tubes. Is it steam, water, or does the larger surface area conduct greater heat from whatever is burning to the water.
Hi Brian,
Here is a cross section I put together for a talk last year of the boiler in the Marion:

Its very typical of locomotive, traction engine, as well as many marine and stationary boilers. Coal or wood in the firebox on the left, hot air goes through the tubes to warm the water more and out the stack. The firebox itself is surrounded by water - all the tubes and the firebox are designed to give a large surface area in contact with the water to heat it most efficiently. One thing about this style boiler, you never want the water level to fall below the top of the firebox, or that metal will get too hot, soften, and collapse - big job for the engineer was to monitor the water level by a sight glass in the back wall and add more using the injectors. Injectors could be either mechanical pumps or steam driven venturi style to push the water past a check valve. On the Marion there were two large water tanks, one each side of the boiler, for the injectors to draw from. This let them keep the volume of water in the boiler itself smaller, so they did not have to heat such a huge volume at startup, plus they could refill the side tanks easily since they were not under pressure.

By comparison, the model version will have a dummy lower firebox, and the main shell will extend all the way to othe back end. One large firetube instead of dozens of little ones, and it will have a butane fired burner at the back end of it.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 03:34:53 PM by crueby »

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4127 on: June 19, 2019, 03:47:59 PM »
The boiler has finished its bath in the pickle solution, visually the joints look good, which is step one. Just put in the blanking plugs and filled it with water, no drips or seeps so far, which is a good step two. Got things to do this afternoon, will get a shot at a static pressure test this evening hopefully.

Offline Firebird

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4128 on: June 19, 2019, 08:27:57 PM »
Hi Chris

Great job on the boiler  :ThumbsUp:

What type of propane torch do you use

Cheers

Rich

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4129 on: June 19, 2019, 09:13:43 PM »
Hi Chris

Great job on the boiler  :ThumbsUp:

What type of propane torch do you use

Cheers

Rich
Hi Rich,


I have a Sievert 2238 handle with interchangeable tips,plus their regulator that coonects to a 20 pound propane gas grill tank. Handy setup, have an assortment of the tips for fine flame to large boiler roaster, nbrs 393802,393902,394002,3941p,2941p,2942p. I originally got the 2944 tip and handle, but then learned that one does not have interchangeable tips. Currently using Harris Black flux paste, also have used Tenacity 5 flux, both work very well. For very small parts, have a couple of small handheld butane ones that can be used in the shop. The Seivert is outdoor only.

Offline kvom

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4130 on: June 19, 2019, 10:55:40 PM »
It's not so much hot air as a lot of combustion gas and soot from the coal.  In many more modern locomotives the steam was superheated by passing in a smaller tube through one of the fire tubes, into the firebox, and back out through another fire tube.  Since the flue gases are very corrosive, the superheater tubes need to be made from a corrosion resistant steel.

Offline Firebird

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4131 on: June 19, 2019, 11:20:35 PM »
Hi Chris

Thats interesting  :thinking:

Sievert torches are not cheap. Julian and I both have the cheaper versions from Machine Mart which are ok but perhaps not giving us the high heat needed when doing bigger boiler jobs

I don't want to side track your build too much so if anyone has some technical spec on torches perhaps they would be able to open a topic

Cheers

Rich

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4132 on: June 19, 2019, 11:37:06 PM »
 :whoohoo: :pinkelephant: :cartwheel: :pinkelephant: :whoohoo: :cartwheel:

Oh. Guess I should explain the dancing...!
This morning I got the initial boiler soldering done, but did not have time to pressure test it. After getting home this afternoon, started setting up the static test gear - installing the blanking plugs, getting the hose from the pump to the boiler hooked up, all that stuff. Filled the boiler up full of water, sealed the last plug, and started pumping.


Nothing on the gauge...

 :shrug:

Narrowed it down to the new hand pump - it will pump water with no back pressure, but for some reason does not want to build up pressure. So, will figure that one out later - got my old pump out that uses ball bearings for the check valves, and instantly got pressure built up.
That identified a leak in the joints going to the pressure gauge. Tightened that up, solved. Then one by one started getting leaks in a GOOD place - around the blanking plugs! I had tried using o-rings to seal the flats of the plug and bushing, but that was not holding too well, and I was getting a stream like this:

from under the o-ring. Which is why the static test is ALWAYS done with water rather than compressed air (several reasons, actually - can instantly see a leak, and if something fails catastrophically you just get a 'phut' sound and some water spills, no explosion or nasty shrapnel).

So, took out the blanking plugs and wrapped the threads in teflon tape, reinserted them, and pumped up the pressure again:

And it STAYED there! No more leaks, no drips, runs, drops forming, nothing!!!!
 :whoohoo: :pinkelephant: :cartwheel: :whoohoo: :wine1:

This is the first time ever that I had a boiler hold pressure the first time. The first one was a VERY complex boiler (Kozo's New Shay) and I was just learning the silver soldering, since then it usually still took several fixes and re-do's. Big thing I did differently this time was use more solder on each joint, having finally learned that on these wide flanges the initial solder wicks all the way in, and it needs more to keep spots from getting starved. The solder wire is not that expensive, well worth putting in another bit on each joint.
So, will get things cleaned up and put away and then go enjoy the evening!  Hmmm... may clean it up tomorrow instead!
Oh, and here is my test setup - plastic box of water for the hand pump to sit in, going through a short air hose with a shutoff valve on it (so the slight leak in the checkvalve on the pump does not matter), and the boiler with a pressure gauge on top (several adapters on the stack, each boiler seems to wind up with different threads) and the blanking plugs on all the bushings.  Very simple setup, for a very important test - would never want to try steaming an un-tested boiler!!


 :cheers:

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4133 on: June 19, 2019, 11:43:48 PM »
Hi Chris

Thats interesting  :thinking:

Sievert torches are not cheap. Julian and I both have the cheaper versions from Machine Mart which are ok but perhaps not giving us the high heat needed when doing bigger boiler jobs

I don't want to side track your build too much so if anyone has some technical spec on torches perhaps they would be able to open a topic

Cheers

Rich
No, they are not cheap, but they work very well and I think are well worth the investment for them - with the different tips available they can do everything from a small handrail to a large boiler and everything in between. I used their regulator adapter for the grill tank, so I knew everything was compatible for pressure and flow requirements. The prices do vary depending where you buy them, well worth the time to shop around. Given that I will be holding the thing, its comforting to know that it is a good quality tool that wont fail in my face - would be very nervous about something like a harbor fright cheapo knockoff - they may work, but what if you get the bad one? The Seivert torch tips have a huge range of heat output. If someone knows more about them, I agree that it would make a good pinned reference thread! I learned about them on one of the forums (was either here or HMEM back when I was making the Shay). Also part of that should be a discussion of silver solders and fluxes - one of those topics with lots of favorites and rules of thumb, I am sure.
 :cheers:

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4134 on: June 20, 2019, 01:35:30 AM »
Hi Chris  i bought my Sievert torch equipment 53 years ago  (when it was imperial !!) and have used it ever since... i have also still got the receipt for the gas bottle deposit  2 shillings and 4 pence !!!  however the shop has since closed down about 1985  so i can say goodbye to that...about  12  pence now !!!.... good to see the boiler coming together and holding pressure. soon be in steam  yea...

willy

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4135 on: June 20, 2019, 02:10:48 AM »
Hello Chris,

Congratulations on the Boiler :praise2:

Have a great day,
Thomas

Offline Don1966

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4136 on: June 20, 2019, 02:33:50 AM »
Great glad it all worked out for you Chris. Just a jam up job all the way around and it helps to have good equipment to do the job with and the expertise for soldering....... :praise2: did I say ........I.........like........ :Love:


 :drinking-41:
Don

Offline Kim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4137 on: June 20, 2019, 05:45:41 AM »
Excellent work on the boiler Chris!  Very exciting that it worked first time!  That's got to feel pretty good :)  :ThumbsUp:

Kim

Online Jo

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4138 on: June 20, 2019, 08:41:14 AM »
 8) Nice to see it passed its pressure test.

To add to your advice Chris: Never do the static pressure test in direct sun light  :hellno: The sun's heating effect can increase the  pressure in the boiler over straining it and ruining the boiler :paranoia:

Jo
Usus est optimum magister

Offline paulc1

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #4139 on: June 20, 2019, 08:50:21 AM »
Crikey, this build is truly amazing I crammed the whole thread and really enjoyed your journal, also love the subs. fantastic work!