Author Topic: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel  (Read 153836 times)

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #300 on: December 12, 2017, 02:56:58 PM »
Okay, been a while coming, but finally starting to shape material for the Marion 91!

All right, its not metal, and its just a form to make the metal, but it made shavings, so it counts! Here is the wood form to bend the copper sheet over to make the body of the bucket:


The block is a chunk of apple wood that I had in the stacks, left over from cutting knees out of the crooks of an apple tree for use in one of the full size boats (the naturally curved grain where branches come out of the trunk is very strong and stable). The block was cut to width (3") and depth (2.69") on the table saw, then the one side was tapered and the corners rounded off with a block plane. The block is longer than is needed for the metal, to leave room to clamp it in the vise. It should also work out as a holding fixture when milling the ends and drilling holes in the bucket shell.

Here is a rendering of the dipper assembly to show you where I am going with this:

The bucket shell will get extra layers of bar stock to form the thicker areas at the top and bottom - the original did it the same way, with the bands rivetted in place.

Next up will be to cut a 3-1/2" wide length of the sheet stock, anneal it, and start bending - that will likely be tomorrow, have some other family stuff today.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 08:31:46 PM by crueby »

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #301 on: December 12, 2017, 03:22:01 PM »
 :whoohoo:  :popcornsmall:  :wine1:

I see plans under the wood form. It'd be great to see them, if you haven't posted them already.

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill
"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline mal webber

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #302 on: December 12, 2017, 05:33:34 PM »
Looking forward to seeing this build  :popcorn:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #303 on: December 12, 2017, 06:53:37 PM »
:whoohoo: :popcornsmall: :wine1:

I see plans under the wood form. It'd be great to see them, if you haven't posted them already.

Jim


I only have the first couple of sheets of the scaled down ones done so far, will be dimensioning the rest over the next week or two. There are plans for the plans in the works, more info on that in the next couple of months... :-X

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #304 on: December 12, 2017, 06:54:45 PM »
Looking forward to seeing this build  :popcorn:
Great to have you along for the ride, this should be a fun one!

Offline steamboatmodel

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #305 on: December 13, 2017, 02:51:09 PM »
"Oh, are you guys still back in that silly alternate universe with only 24 hours in a day?!   

We got another 4 or 6 inches of snow overnight, more coming tonight. Its good to be retired so I can pick when I go out!  A guy I know lives near Buffalo where the lake effect snow comes off of Lake Erie, they regularly get snow by the foot whenever the wind is blowing from the west, which it usually is. "

Chris I have been trying to find the universe with more than 24 hours in a day for years.
It is nice to be retired and pick when you have to go out, but sometimes the Gods are against you. Yesterday I had a heart specialist appointment downtown, took me an hour to go what is normally a 25 minute bus ride, then 45 minutes on two subways, that normally is a 30 minute ride. Then to top it all off they want to do another heart procedure.
I once asked one of the Buffalo Guys why there ancestors had not moved to somewhere with less snow after the first winter, He said that they had probably burned there wagons the first year to keep warm. with to days temperature I can understand that -12 C now.
Are you going to do a thread on your sea turtle build?
Gerald.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors--and miss. Lazarus Long

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #306 on: December 13, 2017, 03:27:33 PM »
Quote
"Oh, are you guys still back in that silly alternate universe with only 24 hours in a day?!   

We got another 4 or 6 inches of snow overnight, more coming tonight. Its good to be retired so I can pick when I go out!  A guy I know lives near Buffalo where the lake effect snow comes off of Lake Erie, they regularly get snow by the foot whenever the wind is blowing from the west, which it usually is. "
Chris I have been trying to find the universe with more than 24 hours in a day for years.
It is nice to be retired and pick when you have to go out, but sometimes the Gods are against you. Yesterday I had a heart specialist appointment downtown, took me an hour to go what is normally a 25 minute bus ride, then 45 minutes on two subways, that normally is a 30 minute ride. Then to top it all off they want to do another heart procedure.
I once asked one of the Buffalo Guys why there ancestors had not moved to somewhere with less snow after the first winter, He said that they had probably burned there wagons the first year to keep warm. with to days temperature I can understand that -12 C now.
Are you going to do a thread on your sea turtle build?
Gerald.
You remember Paul Spielberger? He moved to the south side of Buffalo near the lake, since he likes snow so much - they get DUMPED on every time there is a west wind off Lake Erie. And he is a school teacher, figured he would have more sense! I heard that the east end of Lake Ontario is getting hit hard too, as usual, another four feet yesterday. The snowmobilers are having a ball.

I am probably going to do an article for the sea turtle sub in the Sub Committee journal (thats the group that organizes the RC sub clubs). I'll post pics here occasionally too as the work progresses. Just ordered a bunch of the mold-making supplies from Smooth-On, got a few more of the master parts to carve and prep, and I want to have the wire-controlled limb mechanisms made before I cast the parts in silicone rubber. The shell will be fiberglass.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #307 on: December 13, 2017, 06:57:17 PM »
And the actual metal-work has begun!  Started by cutting the blank for the bucket shell out of some brass sheet stock (found another sheet at the bottom of the stack that was a closer size in brass than the copper I had, this will make a stronger finished part).

Set up the torch outside (COLD out there today, so the metal cooled down again quickly between annealing steps) and got it up to a dull red, then let it cool and gave it the initial bend over the form, just pushing it in place by hand. Got this far around before it work-hardened and stopped:

Out for another annealing, then another bend:

The front took the shape well, finished off with a few mallet taps with a wood block over the metal to prevent dents. Back out for another re-heat, and got the back curves tighter in:

The overlap was marked, then used a hacksaw to take off the extra length, cleaned it up on the edge of the belt sander:

Slid the part off the form, it holds the shape pretty well, little bit of springback:

For strength, I think I will silver solder the seam. There are several cross-bars that will span the joint, those will get rivetted and solft soldered in place, but I don't want to risk the joint popping open later on, so the silver solder should do the trick. If there is any sign of the joint, a little JB weld and filing should blend it in nicely.
To hold the joint tight for soldering, I am going to make up a couple of short clamp blocks (just u-shapes with screws) to span the joint, if that happens to get silver soldered in place, it will be easy to trim them off.  Then I can start in on the next layers of banding and cross bars, using the wood form to hold everything in the mill vise for trimming to shape....
Nice to be back cutting metal again!  :cartwheel:
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 08:32:06 PM by crueby »

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #308 on: December 13, 2017, 08:47:21 PM »
Continuing on with the initial piece of the dipper bucket, made up a couple little clamps to hold the joint in place for silver soldering. First milled a slot in a bit of square stock:

and drilled/tapped a pair of holes in each, before sawing the two clamps apart:

Here are the clamps in action, tightened down the screw on one side of each, pressed the bucket shell together while tightening the other two. Had to go back and file off a couple of burs to get the two halves to seat tightly.

And the shell after silver soldering it outside - put the solder on the outside of the joint while heating from inside, looks like it penetrated very well.

The clamps did not get soldered on, fortunately - remembered too late that I have some Nicrobraze that I should have put on first to prevent that, but got lucky that the flux and solder did not flow over that far.  Its taking a bath in some pickle for now. When that is done I can start on the banding that goes around the top/bottom ends, then mill the ends to shape. The bottom is flat, the top gets an angled notch to give the top forward end a better bite into the ground. The banding will be rivetted/soft soldered in place.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 08:32:14 PM by crueby »

Offline Kim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #309 on: December 14, 2017, 03:14:33 AM »
And so it begins!  :popcorn:
Kim

Offline 10KPete

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #310 on: December 14, 2017, 03:47:46 AM »
It's gonna be a long movie... :whoohoo:

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
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Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #311 on: December 14, 2017, 03:47:59 AM »
Good start Chris :ThumbsUp: The journey has begun.  :whoohoo:

I think using brass is a better way to go. Much stronger when you start digging that miniature Panama Canel in your backyard!  :naughty:

Jim
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"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #312 on: December 14, 2017, 03:56:02 AM »
Thanks guys!


Definitely going to be a long movie, think Peter Jackson and a Tolkien story!


Hmm, I have the RC boats, a canal would be useful to get to the neighbors pool!!

Offline 10KPete

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #313 on: December 14, 2017, 06:48:49 AM »
Thanks guys!


Definitely going to be a long movie, think Peter Jackson and a Tolkien story!


Hmm, I have the RC boats, a canal would be useful to get to the neighbors pool!!

Now that's thinking like a true Robber Baron!!!

Pete
Craftsman, Tinkerer, Curious Person.
Retired, finally!
SB 10K lathe, Benchmaster mill. And stuff.

Offline pp2076

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #314 on: December 14, 2017, 10:17:42 AM »
Hi Chris,

As you know already I have been inspired by your recent work on the very successful Lombard and now the Marion Shovel.

Your 3D drawings in Fusion 360 give a great example of what can be achieved with realistic and detailed illustrations of the workings of these rather complex machines. I am still working with my thoughts on Ruston-Bucyrus Shovels which in many ways are similar to Marion's products.

It seems that much of the original information on the R-B designs has been lost along with those of Ruston & Hornsby as a result of the takeovers by English Electric and then Siemens, neither of which were likely to have an interest in shovels. However I am still collecting whatever I can find, including various sources which have found their way to the Antipodes.

I have been a user of Autodesk Inventor for some time and I want to compare the results from that very expensive programme with your work with the free ( for hobbyists) Fusion 360 which originates from the same software house.  I wonder whether Inventor which has all sorts of bells and whistles but was 'invented' some years ago would perform as well as Fusion 360 which surely must have more up-to-date origins. :headscratch:

Sorry to hijack your thread.
Jerry
Beware: Fusion 360 is only free to hobbyists for a year. After that they charge like a wounded bull