Author Topic: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel  (Read 286747 times)

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2565 on: December 01, 2018, 01:20:11 AM »
I don't have the heisler book, but found what sounds like the same thing in the two shay books. That is what I was thinking of using for the larger elbows, think for these simple little ones that I would try them out of one piece. Can always revert to his way if it doesn't work out.


 :cheers:

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2566 on: December 01, 2018, 08:05:47 PM »
Here goes the experiment in making up the small elbows for the hoist clutch. These are simple ones, no flanges or threads, will be soldered in place, like the typical house plumbing elbows. I made up a little holding jig from some square steel bar, milled a slot in one end to take the bar stock, and put in two screws - one right through to act as a stop for the stock (no way to mill a square bottomed/ended slot), and one through one side to hold the stock in place.
Then centered it up on the lathe using a dial indicator, adjusting until the two wide sides and one narrow side were all equidistant from center. That way I can drill/turn the parts and know the holes will be centered on the legs of the elbow (arms, I guess?, otherwise it would be a knee. Yes, centered on the arms).

Then cycled through all the parts, center drilling then drilling the passage through to the meeting point in the center of the elbow joint. It is very quick and repeatable to pop the parts in and out with the holding screw, so it was fastest to center drill the ends of the arms, then come back and drill all of them, rather than putting the drill in and out every time. Also, once the depth of drilling was known, I could just count handwheel turns on each part since the drill was always in the same starting spot.

One more pass through the parts to counterbore the ends out to the size of the tubing, in this case 1/8". These holes just went .100" in, enough to hold for soldering but not so far that rounding the inner corner later will be a problem.

Then started turning the ends round, first on one arm:

Then on the other arm:

Here is the first part up to that point, test fit with some tube:

So far it is working out very quickly, less than an hour to make up 10 elbows (more than needed for this clutch, but wanted a couple spares and they will come in handy at some point). The last step will be to round the corners off of the elbow joint - will do the outside on the belt sander, and the inside with the rotary tool. Assuming that all works, it has worked out much faster and with much less stock than Kozo's way of piecing it up, but he was usually doing much more complex ends on his. For the larger parts I need to do for the engines, with flanges and whatnot, I will likely do it the Kozo way, since I think the flange overhangs will preclude this method.
More later after some sanding....

Online Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2567 on: December 01, 2018, 09:05:33 PM »
Hello Chris,

That is slicker than a cat's meow.

Have a great day,
Thomas

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2568 on: December 01, 2018, 09:19:46 PM »
Thanks Thomas!
And a few minutes at the belt sander, the elbow sections are rounded off. Turned out that aa light touch on the edge of the belt to the inside corner smoothed off that part as well, so no need for the rotary tool:

So, about an hour to make the jig and the parts, worked out very well, very happy with them!

Next up will be to cut down the tubing sections, and start soldering things together. Going to just soft solder the piping, it won't be anywhere near the flame on the boiler. I do need to test solder on the stainless steel, as I recall the Tix at least works with it, forget if the regular stuff does, but I want to be sure before committing. I can always silver solder the stubs into the valve block, and soft solder everything else.

Offline 10KPete

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2569 on: December 01, 2018, 11:10:26 PM »
Very nice and I love your fixture. Ya know, flanges could be machined on those elbows by using larger material to start. It would take a bit more work but the flange back sides can be cut in with a parting tool. I'm filing this away for future use...

I'd make the radius on the outside of the elbow larger, using the inside corner as the center point. That's just me.  :insane:

You're really moving this along.

Pete
Craftsman, Tinkerer, Curious Person.
Retired, finally!
SB 10K lathe, Benchmaster mill. And stuff.

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2570 on: December 01, 2018, 11:35:18 PM »
Very nice and I love your fixture. Ya know, flanges could be machined on those elbows by using larger material to start. It would take a bit more work but the flange back sides can be cut in with a parting tool. I'm filing this away for future use...

I'd make the radius on the outside of the elbow larger, using the inside corner as the center point. That's just me.  :insane:

You're really moving this along.

Pete
I think you are right about the back corner, its too sharp. I should be able to take them back a bit more without breaking through to the passage, worth a try on one to see.


For the flanges, seems like they would block getting as far to the inside corner of the opposite arm. I am thinking of turning a shoulder into the end of the arm, and silver soldering on a disc for the flange, that could solve the issue for the larger ones that have a bolt flange at the joints. Worth some experimenting...   :thinking:




 :cheers:

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2571 on: December 01, 2018, 11:49:25 PM »
Very nice and I love your fixture. Ya know, flanges could be machined on those elbows by using larger material to start. It would take a bit more work but the flange back sides can be cut in with a parting tool. I'm filing this away for future use...

I'd make the radius on the outside of the elbow larger, using the inside corner as the center point. That's just me.  :insane:

You're really moving this along.

Pete
I think you are right about the back corner, its too sharp. I should be able to take them back a bit more without breaking through to the passage, worth a try on one to see.


For the flanges, seems like they would block getting as far to the inside corner of the opposite arm. I am thinking of turning a shoulder into the end of the arm, and silver soldering on a disc for the flange, that could solve the issue for the larger ones that have a bolt flange at the joints. Worth some experimenting...   :thinking:




 :cheers:
Pete, gave one a try, liked it so much I did the rest. I could not take it to much more of a radius without hitting the passage since the walls are pretty thin already, but it definitely looks better. Thanks!

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2572 on: December 02, 2018, 02:54:58 PM »
How did you get the original two elbows to multiply? Dark room nice music and  :wine1: maybe?

Just kidding, great job on them! I also find it fun, or at least, very satisfying doing multiple parts of something once a method and fixtures order of ops etc are worked out.

Your method is certainly less work than Kozo's built up method for complex ones and I'll keep it in mind for similar elbows I will need to do for the Erie B-2 shovel.

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2573 on: December 02, 2018, 03:22:45 PM »
How did you get the original two elbows to multiply? Dark room nice music and  :wine1: maybe?

Just kidding, great job on them! I also find it fun, or at least, very satisfying doing multiple parts of something once a method and fixtures order of ops etc are worked out.

Your method is certainly less work than Kozo's built up method for complex ones and I'll keep it in mind for similar elbows I will need to do for the Erie B-2 shovel.
Made them out of Rabbit metal and put them in a dark corner...

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2574 on: December 02, 2018, 04:22:02 PM »
Got the connecting pipes and bracket made up and soldered on:

Almost had a major brain fart - initially made the middle pipe too long, and when test fitting on the model fortunately noticed that it would have put the valve block into the hoist engine flywheel. Shortened that up, and started fitting it to the model. Marked out and drilled the hole for the drain line under the valve block, then with everything held in place drilled for the mounting screws. The little Proxxon drill press is very handy for these holes, can take it to the model rather than trying to move the model to the machine.

Next I will get the mounting holes in the floor tapped, and get the control rod fitted up to connect to the hand lever up front. Then I can rig up a temporary connection to the compressor, and finally test out the clutch!

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2575 on: December 03, 2018, 09:49:32 PM »
Well, one step forward, couple back....

I got the valve hooked up, made a temp fitting for the compressor connection, and gave it a try. Just hooking it up pointed out some flaws in pipes hitting the control rod, and several air leaks showed that the way I soldered in the pipes to the valve body was not sturdy enough, and the way I milled the body out of one piece meant that I could not lap the valve surface, so it is a little rough and the slider leaks.
 :thinking:
So, going to redesign and remake the valve body - two piece like a normal engine steam chest onto the valve face (plus lid), and going to reroute and deepen the pipe counterbores plus will silver solder things together this time. Also the flange that holds the pipe into the end of the axle needs a tweak so I can get at the bolt into the floor easier.

Not a big setback, as they go, and it will make the parts much more robust. Good part is that the clutch worked, aside from having to crank up the air flow due to the leaks.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2576 on: December 03, 2018, 10:08:36 PM »
So, about an hour to make the jig and the parts, worked out very well, very happy with them!

A little math...

Given:

a) About an hour to make the jig and the parts
b) 1st post was October 2017
c) My rate is about 10xChris (at least!)

'a' and 'c' means about 10 times 1 hour = 1 week
'b' and 'c' means about 10 times 1 year = my lifetime

If you disagree with the math...keep in mind the 10x multiplier is a zee multiplier and hence completely bogus.

Now back to that word problem involving two trains speeding towards each other.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
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Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2577 on: December 03, 2018, 10:11:25 PM »
So, about an hour to make the jig and the parts, worked out very well, very happy with them!

A little math...

Given:

a) About an hour to make the jig and the parts
b) 1st post was October 2017
c) My rate is about 10xChris (at least!)

'a' and 'c' means about 10 times 1 hour = 1 week
'b' and 'c' means about 10 times 1 year = my lifetime

If you disagree with the math...keep in mind the 10x multiplier is a zee multiplier and hence completely bogus.

Now back to that word problem involving two trains speeding towards each other.
:ROFL:
You are not taking into account that you are in that silly 24-hour-per-day universe, while I side-slipped into one with many more hours per day. Or more shop elves per furlong. Something like that. Hard to keep track...


And are the trains steam or diesel? Only makes a difference when they meet on the same track...
 :cheers:

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2578 on: December 03, 2018, 10:17:26 PM »
So, about an hour to make the jig and the parts, worked out very well, very happy with them!

A little math...

Given:

a) About an hour to make the jig and the parts
b) 1st post was October 2017
c) My rate is about 10xChris (at least!)

'a' and 'c' means about 10 times 1 hour = 1 week
'b' and 'c' means about 10 times 1 year = my lifetime

If you disagree with the math...keep in mind the 10x multiplier is a zee multiplier and hence completely bogus.

Now back to that word problem involving two trains speeding towards each other.
:ROFL:
You are not taking into account that you are in that silly 24-hour-per-day universe, while I side-slipped into one with many more hours per day. Or more shop elves per furlong. Something like that. Hard to keep track...


And are the trains steam or diesel? Only makes a difference when they meet on the same track...
 :cheers:

True enough. Lately I've been living in a 6 hour day. Up at 9. Coffee. Playing on the computer. More coffee. More putzing around. More coffee. Then it's 11. And then at 5 it's stinking hoppie time.
Unfortunately, between 11 and 5 it's usually more coffee and putzing.

If it means anything...today I drilled and tapped 10 holes. And there you go. 10 drilled/tapped holes in 6 hours providing proof evidence of my math.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Online crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #2579 on: December 04, 2018, 05:50:07 PM »
And on to Hoist Clutch Valve Body Mk-II...
The new version has been drawn up in Fusion, and the new two-piece valve body cut to outside shape and the center milled out of the upper block.

Next will be to cut the ports and passages, and get the piping made up. This one is a simpler design, should seal up better with the port face able to be lapped on a flat plate.