Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel

[sid pileski]

Chris- I've been quietly following this incredible build.
I'm located in Skaneateles, NY, not too far from Rochester.
Where exactly is the shovel located?
Might be a nice drive out sometime.

Thanks, Sid

[crueby]

Chris- I've been quietly following this incredible build.
I'm located in Skaneateles, NY, not too far from Rochester.
Where exactly is the shovel located?
Might be a nice drive out sometime.

Thanks, Sid

Hi Sid,
Its just outside LeRoy NY on Gulf Road, across from the Hanson quarry. There is a small parking area at the side of the road, you can get about 30 feet from the shovel, it is fenced off so you cannot go up to it (posted land, belongs to the quarry, the town owns the rectangle the shovel sits on). Here is a link to google maps:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/42%C2%B059'33.0%22N+77%C2%B056'17.0%22W/@42.995438,-77.9466362,15.1z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d42.9925!4d-77.938056?hl=en

Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Steam_Shovel_(Le_Roy,_New_York)
There are a couple overlook spots you can see into the quarry from along the road (no fence, dont fall in!). There is also the Jello Museum in town that the historical society runs (LeRoy is where Jello came from).

[sid pileski]

That's funny. I've been to that Jello museum!

Thanks, Sid

[crueby]

That's funny. I've been to that Jello museum!

Thanks, Sid

Then you were just a coule miles from the shovel!

[sid pileski]

Yes,I see that. I also visited the Mumford museum years ago with the kids.
Had I only known!

BTW, I don't think the wiki link works???

Sid

[crueby]

Yes,I see that. I also visited the Mumford museum years ago with the kids.
Had I only known!

BTW, I don't think the wiki link works???

Sid

Just fixed the link, the forum editor kept leaving off the close paren at the end of the link, should be good now.
That mumford museum (Genesee Country Museum) is a great one, they also hold events like a civil war re-enactment weekend every year, thanks for reminding me of that museum.  CRS strikes again!   

[crueby]

While paint is drying on the clutch assembly, I got started figuring out how to make that final gear holder. On the original its a very large casting, but for the model it worked out well to use a set of 3/8" and 5/16" flat bar to piece up the center section, and will use some thin plate for the arched brackets out the sides. Here are the center bar sections cut down to size:

They will get bolted together, probably run in some silver solder too. There are a couple of arched cutouts in the bottom plates that give room for the gears, plus a short section that sticks out on the front. Those cutouts would get very close to the edges of the inner blocks, so the silver solder should make one big hunk out of these smaller plates. I forgot to include a ruler, the longest length is 1.94", shortest sides are .894".

[10KPete]

Yep, your excellent photos make the parts look much bigger...

 

Pete

[derekwarner]

Chris...

The ratio of bearing width to shaft diameter of say 1.5:1 confirms the absolute mechanical loading that must have been exerted on this dog clutch shaft

With respect to the painting of brass, I have seen brass that has been lightly grit blasted with Aluminium Oxide grit....& the result was a greyish surface finish & maintained this with just a few micron surface depth over the depth and poor adhesion of paint

With the actual clutch halves being totally flat/square without any tapered lead-in, would one half of the shaft required to be absolutely stationary, then the opposite coupling half inched around on diameter to ensure smooth engagement of the clutch?

Derek

[crueby]

Chris...

The ratio of bearing width to shaft diameter of say 1.5:1 confirms the absolute mechanical loading that must have been exerted on this dog clutch shaft

With respect to the painting of brass, I have seen brass that has been lightly grit blasted with Aluminium Oxide grit....& the result was a greyish surface finish & maintained this with just a few micron surface depth over the depth and poor adhesion of paint

With the actual clutch halves being totally flat/square without any tapered lead-in, would one half of the shaft required to be absolutely stationary, then the opposite coupling half inched around on diameter to ensure smooth engagement of the clutch?

Derek

I have not heard of the grit blasting technique, have to try that.


The clutch needs to work in both directions, so could not be fully tapered on one side. I would assume they had to move the engine slowly to engage it, but I have not found any writing on its use, just the patent. I am hoping to find a catalog from the mid 20s someday, hope that may shed some light. The gearing to the clutch is around 10:1, so that would help slowly lining it up. The downstream half would be held stationary by still tracks, so as long as they were not runaway down a hill, that half would not move.

[crueby]

Derek, just went and checked, turns out the grit I have for my airbrush type grit blaster is aluminum oxide, so I ran a test on half of one side of some scrap brass. Interesting effect, slightly gray, looks like a cast surface but still some brassy tint to it. Then taped off half the piece and sprayed on the same paint used on the gears as a comparison of how the paint looks next to and on both shiny and gritted surfaces. Will post pics in the morning...

[crueby]

Derek, just went and checked, turns out the grit I have for my airbrush type grit blaster is aluminum oxide, so I ran a test on half of one side of some scrap brass. Interesting effect, slightly gray, looks like a cast surface but still some brassy tint to it. Then taped off half the piece and sprayed on the same paint used on the gears as a comparison of how the paint looks next to and on both shiny and gritted surfaces. Will post pics in the morning...

Here is how the test piece looked - started with one of the wedges from cutting the gear spokes, and grit blasted the narrow end, halfway out, then painted a half from the tip back. So, the lower right quadrant is the raw shiny brass, the lower right is gritblasted with aluminum oxide, and the upper half is those two surfaces painted the gray I have been using. The grit definitely got rid of the shine, and looked a little grey at first, but that was only till it was wiped off - at that point the grey went away and it was just dull brassy looking.

[crueby]

Well, two steps forward (bearing blocks for dog clutch assembly are on and started silver soldering up the final axle block), and one step back (need to remake the dog clutch axle).
I tipped up the main frame on its nose to get access to the bottom of the frame, and got the bearing blocks for the clutch assembly installed. In order to see the little hex head screws enough to get them started and tightened down, I needed more light under there. So, got out a VERY handy flashlight, which has a ball joint head, three segmented flexible legs, and strong magnets on each foot. Bent the legs around, and the magnets held the light onto the I-beams of the frame, aiming the light onto the bearing blocks:

After a lot of fiddling with tweazers, needle-nose pliers, and a very small open end wrench, I got all four bolts in place and tightened down (the holes in the bottom flanges of the I-beams are threaded 2-56)

The gears mesh well, all is good there.
BUT: the dog clutch was interfering with the large gear on the hoist drum.

 
According to the 3D model, that should not happen, so back to the drawings, checking measurements, and found I very carefully, very precisely, measured from the wrong place on the axle when placing the clutch gear/slider, so it was almost half an inch too far to the left.
 
So, I need to disassemble that axle and re-mill the slot for the keyway, moving the clutch parts over to where they belong.  I think I can do that without having to remove the larger gear, fortunately I used grub screws on the retaining rings so the clutch parts SHOULD all come apart again.

[Brian Rupnow]

I broke a tap off this afternoon and couldn't get it out. Very small disaster compared to yours We  should have both taken the afternoon off and went drinking!!! 

[crueby]

I broke a tap off this afternoon and couldn't get it out. Very small disaster compared to yours We  should have both taken the afternoon off and went drinking!!! 

At least on mine nothing broke, and is able to be re-worked (will just leave extra keyway slot length).
I like the afternoon off idea though - couple of Guinesses would go well...