Author Topic: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel  (Read 575380 times)

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1020 on: April 10, 2018, 12:10:52 AM »
Some more done on the pivot base, started shaping the sides by milling in the flat flanges at the ends where the bolts go:

then milling the angled sides:

Took a skim cut off the top to get it to final thickness and ensure the top is nice and flat for the bearing, then drilled a small hole where the center of the pivot post will be, used that to hold it to the rotary table to radius the forward edge:

Part so far:

Next I'll start on the flat stock to form the flanges front and back...
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 09:20:46 PM by crueby »

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1021 on: April 10, 2018, 12:22:24 AM »
Is that all one hunk of metal? That last pic almost shows the part with the round end is sitting in another part.
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Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1022 on: April 10, 2018, 12:25:44 AM »
Is that all one hunk of metal? That last pic almost shows the part with the round end is sitting in another part.
Yup, one piece, the end mill tool marks leave visible lines, though to to touch it is smooth.

Offline J.L.

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1023 on: April 10, 2018, 01:04:00 AM »
Chris, I'm going to have to get some string to tie around my jaw to keep it from dropping.

Very complex and precice machining here...

John

Online Kim

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1024 on: April 10, 2018, 05:38:22 AM »
Chris, I'm continuing to follow along and be impressed!  You put a ton of effort into every piece, and it shows!

Kim

PS I'm the one in the back, on the left, with the big bucket of popcorn!  :popcorn:

Offline Steam Haulage

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1025 on: April 10, 2018, 08:58:37 AM »
It's teaching me a lot watching your build. My interest in these machines goes back a long time, at least 50 years. As you progress I begin to see how Marion were feeling their way towards acheiving strength and maintainablity in machines which were intended for very arduous work where the machine's weight on the working surface had be kept within bounds.

Reading the patents and other literature gives little insight to the many hours and indeed years which the designers and builders spent and this 91 machine build of yours just illustrates the ingenuity needed. Perhaps you are giving me a lesson as to why they and their competitors embraced 'modern' metallurgy and adopted welding construction wherever possible.

Jerry
Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you, pigs treat you as equal.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1026 on: April 10, 2018, 12:37:26 PM »
It's teaching me a lot watching your build. My interest in these machines goes back a long time, at least 50 years. As you progress I begin to see how Marion were feeling their way towards acheiving strength and maintainablity in machines which were intended for very arduous work where the machine's weight on the working surface had be kept within bounds.

Reading the patents and other literature gives little insight to the many hours and indeed years which the designers and builders spent and this 91 machine build of yours just illustrates the ingenuity needed. Perhaps you are giving me a lesson as to why they and their competitors embraced 'modern' metallurgy and adopted welding construction wherever possible.

Jerry
The founders of Marion supposedly got into the business due to the weaknesses of the early machines, and went through many iterations of designs to make them more robust. I think it was that focus on reliability that got them to be a leading maker, maybe just to afford the guarantees they gave. It was a time when alloys were constantly being developed. I have to read up on welding development, there is not a lot of it in the 91, mostly bolts and rivets with a lot of castings.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1027 on: April 10, 2018, 01:08:33 PM »
Chris, I'm going to have to get some string to tie around my jaw to keep it from dropping.

Very complex and precice machining here...

John
Better use elastic, then you can keep eating popcorn with Kim!

Offline kvom

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1028 on: April 10, 2018, 11:25:42 PM »
The Titanic was cast iron plates riveted together in 1912.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1029 on: April 10, 2018, 11:40:39 PM »
The Titanic was cast iron plates riveted together in 1912.
Fortunately this shovel never had to dodge icebergs! 


The state of the art of metalurgy and welding must have been changing fast back at that time. I am still learning myself, got the block for the little angle braces under the rounded front of the pivot base silver soldered on today, but had a dry joint on one side, need to try again.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1030 on: April 11, 2018, 01:12:58 PM »
Finally got around to doing some searching on how they made I beams and such, was surprised to see (as usual on this sort of thing) that the rolling process for making them dates back to 1849, much earlier than I would have guessed. Found this nice diagram on the process:

As for welding processes for adding flanges and such, electric arc welding appears to go back to the very early 1800's, with gas torch welding getting practical on industrial scale around 1890's. By WWI, some ships were being made entirely welded, with automated welding coming in around 1920. So, entirely possible for some of the parts on the Marion 91 to have been welded, though they appear to have used  bolts and rivets for the majority of the parts:

Even for flanges on a lot of the joints between cross beams:

Though there are obvious places where things were welded in place:

including some flanges at the ends of I-beams where they must have welded:

I have been debating how to make the beams for the model, the sizes are not something available off the shelf so they have to be made from bar stock. One way would be to start with a single thick piece of bar and mill out a channel on both sides. It would work, but would be a lot of work and generate lots of waste given that there are over 4 linear yards of beams to make. Another way I am leaning towards is to make a set of holding clamps or jigs to allow silver soldering up the three pieces of flat bar stock - might need to put a shallow groove in the center of the top/bottom webs with a ball end mill to help the center web stay in place. Probably need to connect the clamps to keep things from sagging or warping while heating the parts. The end flanges will most likely be riveted on later like they did in most places.   :headscratch:   Maybe I should have taken those welding classes after all?

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1031 on: April 11, 2018, 02:18:09 PM »
Chris,
Here is a thread about my methods of making scale I beams:
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,2430.msg40700.html#msg40700

Dan
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Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1032 on: April 11, 2018, 02:51:12 PM »
Chris,
Here is a thread about my methods of making scale I beams:
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,2430.msg40700.html#msg40700

Dan
Excellent thread Dan, thanks!!  That saves me some experiments and a lot of time.  :ThumbsUp:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1033 on: April 11, 2018, 07:31:20 PM »
Wrapping up the swing circle pivot base, drilled and bored the hole for the pivot bearing center post:

then bored the larger hole for the bearing to sit in:

The bearing itself was turned out of some bearing bronze rod, first turned the center disc and the larger post on the top end,

flipped the part around and turned the lower end and drilled/bored the center hole for the hoist chain to pass through:

Here is how it sits in the base, partway out of the counterbored recess:

Last part is the spacer plate, basically a very large washer. Started by boring a hole in an offcut of 1/16" flat steel (left over from main boom sides),

then mounted that on an arbor (fit nicely on my gear cutter arbor so did not have to make a new one) to turn the outside round and to size:

Test fit on the pivot bearing post:

Here are the parts assembled, upside down to show the base and pivot. It allows the swing circle to turn a bit over 180 degrees.

and a top view, showing how the hoist chain can pass through the center of the whole assembly:

That completes the swing circle parts - need to rework the temporary base to allow this to sit on it, so I can assemble it with the main boom and dipper. There will still need to be a support for the boom, since the upper guys can't go on until the A-frame is made. The base of the A-frame bolts to the vertical plate on the back of the pivot base. The A-frame is connected to the, pivot base. The pivot base is connected to the....  :Lol:

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Chris's Marion 91 Steam Shovel
« Reply #1034 on: April 11, 2018, 08:56:48 PM »
How often can I say awesome?

As often as I see awesome.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
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