Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version

[sid pileski]

This past weekend at Cabin Fever, I met an saw Doug Kelly's engines. Just outstanding work!
I wondering what you are going to use for the cylinders? Are you going to bore material to size or I think I've heard mentioned using honed, hydraulic cylinder tubing. I cant remember if someone mentioned it at the show??

Coming along nicely, BTW!

Thanks, Sid

[fumopuc]

George, Dave and Carl, thanks for watching and the friendly comments.

[fumopuc]

This past weekend at Cabin Fever, I met an saw Doug Kelly's engines. Just outstanding work!
I wondering what you are going to use for the cylinders? Are you going to bore material to size or I think I've heard mentioned using honed, hydraulic cylinder tubing. I cant remember if someone mentioned it at the show??

Coming along nicely, BTW!

Thanks, Sid

Hi Sid, thanks.
The recommendation of Doug is to use a leaded steel for the liners. I think at your side of the pond, it means to use L1141. The equivalent here in Europe is a 9SMn28k (11SMn30+C). This is what I have used already for my copy of the Snow engine, the Opposed Piston Engine or other engines. Here it will be the same.
A standard conventional machining at the lathe with drilling, turning and a final honing will be my choice.
Last week end the first cylinder has been started already.

[sid pileski]

I think "on my side of the pond" it's 12L14 leaded steal.
I've used that many times.
I'm waiting for my set of plans from HSM. I talked with George Bullis at the show last week, so I'm just doing some preliminary investigations.
I'll be following along on your build. looks very nice. Can't wait to see it run!

Sid

[fumopuc]

I think "on my side of the pond" it's 12L14 leaded steal.

Hi Sid, you are absolutely right.
I have mixed it up completely. Sometime it is a bit confusing with all these names of grades in different countries.
BTW, I have learned that most of these steel grades does not contains lead anymore, because of the toxic gases coming free during production.
So here in Germany, or other parts of the EU, the steel contains Mn, manganese, as an additive to get the property of a better chip breaking.

[petertha]

How have you guys found 12L14 for corrosion over time in a model engine? General parts I've made from 12L14 around the shop can show rust flecks and I live in a very dry part of the world. Gnerally I blacken them but that's not possible for a cylinder liner. I love machining the stuff & considered it for my radial engine but, particularly because its methanol glow fuel, opted for cast iron. Not sure it will be a noticeable improvement but CI is whats called for in the plans & even old school commercial glow engines used CI it before hard chroming came in.

[crueby]

How have you guys found 12L14 for corrosion over time in a model engine? General parts I've made from 12L14 around the shop can show rust flecks and I live in a very dry part of the world. Gnerally I blacken them but that's not possible for a cylinder liner. I love machining the stuff & considered it for my radial engine but, particularly because its methanol glow fuel, opted for cast iron. Not sure it will be a noticeable improvement but CI is whats called for in the plans & even old school commercial glow engines used CI it before hard chroming came in.

I only used 12L14 once, cut well, but rusted quickly in the damp summer air. Switched to 303 stainless, cuts great too without the rust, never went back.

[sid pileski]

As the prototype is all painted (both full size and the models) rusting on the outside would not be an issue. Are you worried about rusting when the engine has not been run for a period of time?
I too like 303. I've used it on a flame eater with a carbon piston that's held up well over the years.
303 machines nice and polishes up nice too.

Sid

[petertha]

Yes, exactly Sid. The ID surface of a cylinder liner will be exposed to the remnant fuel during storage in between runnings. I know of some engines that specifically call for 12l14, they run on gasoline (as opposed to methanol or other similar spirits) with either pre-mix oil or oil pump. They don't seem to have the same degree of corrosion problems, but still I've have heard comments. I guess one can get into after-run / storage protective oil circulation which is quite common practice for RC engines, but that can be a pain on more complex engines. Have not heard of 303 SS being used but I'm no expert either. Anyways, didn't want to derail the thread on this issue, it just caught my eye & I will be commencing my own liners soon, hence the interest.

[sid pileski]

Well, I guess it is a matter of where and how you store them after a run.
I believe in Marvel Mystery Oil, so a little down the carb after a run should do it.

Now, back to this build!

Sid 

[fumopuc]

Hi Sid, Peter an Chris, so far I have not noticed any kind of corrosion at my stock of "

Automatenstahl 9SMn28k (11SMn30+C)".

May be there is a difference to the 12L14, sold in the states, because the common European stuff is without lead (Pb) there is manganese (Mn) added.

My very first IC engine, was a Webster, build and first run end of 2011. This engine is also equipped with a liner made by the above mentioned steel.

It sits in a display cabinet since may years now. I will get it out there and inspect the liner soon.

[fumopuc]

Hi everybody, some progress with the cylinder manufacturing.
Doing my first attempt for the water jacket, I failed  with my set up part, being inattentive
See the big scratch in the upper place where later the line will be seated.

[fumopuc]

Over the week I was thinking about changing my machining strategy and purchasing a new boring bar for DCMT0702 inserts.
I thought it was a good idea because of the way it could be used, better than my usual CCMT0602 insert.
But also here I failed completely, I have had no chance to get it machined properly
Until today no idea why that happens.
After killing 3,5 inserts I have changed my strategy back to the CCMT insert and a machining from two sides was done.

[fumopuc]

Today the silver soldering job was done.

[petertha]

Nice work. Was there a particular reason for not integrally machining the flange when you did the rest of the turning vs. silver soldering a separate piece? Maybe just less waste metal of larder stock OD?