Author Topic: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill  (Read 6730 times)

Offline Vixen

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2017, 09:38:33 PM »
Hello Kvom and Dave

I am sorry, but I think I may have misled you.

Both LinuxCNC and PP can handle tool changes mid program. First, you need a tool length probe to measure the length of each tool. You use the probe to make a tool library with each tool having a unique tool number and tool length. You call off the required tool from the tool library within your multi tool change program.

I do not have a tool length probe, so I always have one file per tool. The way I work does not usually require tool changes.

You were quite correct in saying it is not possible to jog a tool after you have started to execute a file.

Cheers

Mike
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Offline kvom

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2017, 12:20:16 AM »
I have an R8 spindle, so the only way to use tool length offsets is to have a lot of TTS collets.  Since i use a lot of different tools it's not very practical.  Assuming I had a few such collets I'd need to measure each one with a tool setter of some sort prior to running the file.  Even TTS collets wouldn't help with number drills.

In reality CamBam makes it easy to create separate files for each tool, so other than keeping track it will probably not be a killer problem.

Getting closer to a spindle solution.  I have a set of stepgen parameters that run the spindle reliably between 100 and 4000 RPMs.  Unfortunately the S values for this range are 100-555.  I have a few more things to try including using the lincurve routine to map commanded to actual.

Offline tvoght

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2017, 12:50:47 AM »
I do use the TTS tooling system and I'm pretty happy mounting each new tool in its own TTS holder.

Tool 1 in my table is a reference tool (a length of ground rod in holder number 1).

Each time I add a new tool, I first zero Z at the spot where I can just roll an endmill shank across the machine table under the reference tool.  I then mount the new tool and adjust Z until the endmill shank just rolls under the new tool. The difference in Z is entered into LinuxCNC's tool table entry for the new tool.

Before running a program, The reference tool is touched off to zero Z.  Tool length compensation is enabled in the program

For each tool change, a rapid to a safe tool change position is programmed, followed by an M6 tool change command. which (at least when using the AXIS Gui) stops the spindle and pops up a window telling me to change to the appropriate tool and click continue. no touching off is required at tool change time.

Even when running a file per tool, I use this method, because I only have to do a single touch off of the reference before beginning all the runs.

It's true that it's not practical to maintain drill bits in the tool table, but I'm happy enough touching those off individually and using separate runs.

--Tim


Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2017, 01:14:27 AM »
I too use TTS holders in my converted knee mill, I have collected enough of them to do most anything that I need. But they're always coming out with something new and interesting. Kirk I not sure what you mean by "even TTS collets wouldn't help with number drills"? I run all my drills in ER collets; my mill has a little less than 5" of travel on the quill so you need to try to keep everything about the same length, so I don't use drill chucks much anymore.

I set all my tools to the top of the stock or theoretical top of stock using gage blocks. Different than what I do at work but I get by OK with it. After  I set all my tools for the job, then use the last tool to set the Z fixture offset.

My mill software at work allows me to mass modify the tool lengths of all the tools in the carousel at once. This comes in really handy when you want to shift everything up or down. I can set tools on the fixture plate which is bolted to my table. If I put the vise on top of the fixture plate I just shift all the tools up to the bed of the vise, or that plus the thickness of my paralells. Then I can set my G54 Z offset to the desired thickness of my part and I'm good to go.

Dave

Offline steamer

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2017, 01:20:27 AM »
With the Tormach, and the PP software, I just rezero the Z to the top of the work, and  PP takes it from there.

It's been working great for me thus far....and I'm making some really tiny parts as of late.

Dave
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Offline kvom

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2017, 02:27:07 PM »
Something that could be a workaround.  Hit Stop at a tool change, which rewinds the file.  Jog to zero the next tool and then use the 'Run From Here' feature to skip to the M6 command before restarting.  I'll give that a try today.

Offline Vixen

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2017, 03:25:13 PM »
Hi Kvom,

That will work for sure, it's similar to the way I do things. That 'Run from' function is very useful I use it for all sorts of things.

It may be a good idea to edit your file with some extra notes to remind you of what tool to install next.

Mike
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Offline kvom

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2017, 09:13:11 PM »
Cambam allows a label on the Mop that becomes a g-code comment and also generates a comment about the tool diameter specified.

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2017, 09:41:45 PM »
Something that could be a workaround.  Hit Stop at a tool change, which rewinds the file.  Jog to zero the next tool and then use the 'Run From Here' feature to skip to the M6 command before restarting.  I'll give that a try today.

Why not edit out the M6 command before you ever run the program, if you are only using one tool it is not necessary?

Offline kvom

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2017, 10:30:23 PM »
Cambam generates an initial M6 even for a single tool.  Under Mach3 it's just an extra click, and as well it's a reminder of what tool should be mounted.

I did notice one interesting fact as well.  If I add a '(' to the first gcode line of a Mop and a ')' at the end, it comments out the entire Mop.  That's easier than deleting the code, which has been my habit when I need to make a correction in a subsequent Mop and then rerun.  Probably better than run from here.

In any case I have found reasonable settings for the spindle stepper that at least generates motion from S100 to S4000.  I have coded up a HAL fix using the lincurve routine to give a more linear match between the S value and the actual resulting RPMs.  If that works I'll call it done and use PP for the next milling job.

Offline Vixen

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2017, 10:55:21 AM »
Hi Kvom,

That's good news that you have PP up and running on your non-tormach machine. I am very pleased for you.

It shows that under the skin PP is 100% LinuxCNC and that you can manipulate the HAL and INI files in the same way, to make fine adjustments to the set-up.

I have still not yet got my PP installation to work fully. The graphic display is slow and lags behind the actual stepper movement. I suspect my PC is too slow.

I wish I could find out  the true minimum processor speed necessary to run PP. Can anyone help?

Cheers
Mike   :cheers:
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 11:01:58 AM by Vixen »
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Online Jo

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2017, 11:24:34 AM »
I wish I could find out  the true minimum processor speed necessary to run PP. Can anyone help?

We have this problem all the time with virtualisation: It is very difficult to state metrics for computing power for any application: They can quote if you have X manufacturer's processor to this build standard (internal architecture on the silicon) of this version of bios, with this amount of defined memory of speed/architecture, running this version of a specific operating system it will work so long as you have no other stuff on the processor, running on the network, have a hard disc of specifics etc, etc. and you never look to update the software and they may wish to define a specific file size for the application to be running for the purpose of the metric..

This is clearly not possible and people would complain about that too as they would not be able to buy that specific build anyway so it is rather pointless  ::)..... so rule of thumb is an application provider over quote the requirements.

Jo
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Offline Vixen

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2017, 11:34:26 AM »
I wish I could find out  the true minimum processor speed necessary to run PP. Can anyone help?

... so rule of thumb is an application provider over quote the requirements.

Jo

I take your point, but we are not working to a mil spec budget or methodology.

All I am asking is 'what works for the folks out there'. Who has run PP successfully and how fast was their PC?

Mike
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

Offline kvom

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2017, 12:34:38 PM »
One thing to consider is that much of the work done in the CPU under Mach3 is now done by the Mesa card.   It may well be that it's your video card that is the problem (or the video processor on the motherboard).

Offline Art K

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Re: Attempting control upgrade on my Novakon CNC mill
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2017, 01:06:56 PM »
Mike,
I may be able to help you with the minimum system requirements. But will have to hunt it up after work. :)
Art
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