Hey Steamer, Cletus did a bad thing too

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Boys and girls old Cletus happened upon a 1942 vintage Monarch 10EE lathe today and a deal was struck. I think it has a couple of backlash issuses, but not severe. I have known the owner for years and he got it from the tool room he worked in during the sixties which was the same tool room of the Springfield Woolen Mills for which it was originally purchased. This mill produced a great number of the wool blankets during the war years. They also produced a great number of Olympic garments of the era. My paternal grandmother worked at the mill for years. I asked him if it ran and while he was turning on the phase converter, I sat my Yeti mug on a somewhat curved surface on the far left headstock end. He came over and started the chuck spinning and ran it up to 1750 RPM and my mug didn't move  SOLD. Pictures and dissertation will follow for the removal and relocation. I'm tickled

Cletus

[b.lindsey]

Congratulations on a great find Cletus. I know you have the room for it. Looking forward to seeing the pictures and dissertation. Sometimes it pays to be a good ole boy and to know people

Bill

[Dave Otto]

Nice score Eric!

The first lathe I ever ran was a 10EE  (1949 IIRC) turning hubs on disk drive spindle motors; That was back in 1982 when a hard disk drive was almost the size of an automatic dishwasher.
Looking forward to seeing the photographic evidence.

Dave

[90LX_Notch]

That is awsome Eric, congratulations.  That is a great back story of the lathe's history.  I find it interesting that a  wool mill would have purchased such a precision lathe.  The machinery must have been very intricate at the mill.

-Bob

[Nick_G]

.
I recently watched a video about the highly regarded and much prized 10EE 

This guy is about to restore one.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLbpVKLZjrE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLbpVKLZjrE</a>

Nick

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Thanks guys. I have to admit that I am a happy home shop machinist tonight. Now the old gal has to undergo a major cleaning and  I'm betting on a couple of wiring issues, but, it ran smooth as silk. Now old Cletus is gonna come clean and admit to having a nice tall Yeti glass full of single barrel bourbon poured up for the initial viewing.(moths flow more freely)  I placed the glass on the headstock end whilst he was turning on the phase converter and before I could fetch me glass, he started the lathe and began spinning it up. At 1750 RPM my glass of precious bourbon was sitting there without a quiver. SOLD. I can't get over how smooth and quiet it is compared to my gearhead import. I can't wait to bring it home and start the "rest of the story " I am going to have to source a manual for it cause I've never been around one.

Cletus

[Maryak]

From Redneck to Monarch of the South - Nice find - Enjoy

Regards Bob

[Kim]

Congratulations Eric!  Can't wait to see the pics of your new addition!
Kim

[steamer]

Awesome!.....well talk in the morning...just got home from work...

[10KPete]

So the old hound dog nosed up a truffle!!!   

And a darned nice one too.  Dang it Eric I would have loved to be there just to see yer mug light up.

Pics, Pics, Pics.

Pete

[Jo]

 

And we also need to see the full set of goodies it came with.

The great thing about buying a quality bit of kit is it starts out smelling like a real machine  , rather than rank old frying oil  . I bet that machine will last you your life time and I can't see you wanting to use your old Grizzly any more

Jo

[simplyloco]

Reminds me of my Army apprenticeship: my lathe was reconditioned in 1947!
John

[steamer]

So the old hound dog nosed up a truffle!!!   

And a darned nice one too.  Dang it Eric I would have loved to be there just to see yer mug light up.

Pics, Pics, Pics.

Pete

Yeah me too!!!      Wot Jo said!!!!!!!   

[steamer]

And we also need to see the full set of goodies it came with.

The great thing about buying a quality bit of kit is it starts out smelling like a real machine  , rather than rank old frying oil  . I bet that machine will last you your life time and I can't see you wanting to use your old Grizzly any more

Jo

The 10EE is a mythical beast.     To run one is divine.....    Round dial Eric?   Did we mention we wanted pictures?

[kvom]

My 10EE is also from 1942.

You can call Monarch with the serial number and for a few $ they will send you a binder with all the original documentation.  Another great source of help and info is the Monarch section of the Practical Machinist website. 

Does yours have the original Ward-Leonard motor generator drive?  For mine I have a rotary phase converter using a 7.5HP motor.  Did you buy the phase converter with the lathe.

If it comes with a steady rest you're in luck as finding one is not easy.

I might have to drive up there soon to help you fondle it.

And we need pics.

[ShopShoe]

Congratulations Cletus,

In addition to Keith Rucker's 10EE, Tom Lipton (Oxtoolco) got one, but no further word on what he's doing.  Outside screwball also got one, reconditioned it, and has been adding accessories.  If you Google for them, you will find lots of people who have got them running, some with rather extensive modifications or rebuilds. I drool over them, but will probably never see one.

You have joined a cult within a cult, but I hope you can show pictures.

Regards,

ShopShoe

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Thanks everyone for looking in. To be honest, I didn't really know what a "cult" following and mythical claims the 10EE had until starting to read up a bit last night. Really, I don't know much about what it  has or doesn't have in regards to electrics and features, but, everything looks original. No Kirk,, I didn't get the phase converter it is running on presently and I'm guessing that the one I'm using on my mill isn't going to be big enough. No steady rest as far as I know, but, didn't think to ask or look. Basically, it was owned by a good friend that is going through some hard financial times and I jumped at the chance to buy it and help him out. That being said; I really didn't give it a nit picking exam. I'm going to try and get it home this weekend and I promise pics will follow: along with tons of questions I'm sure. Y'all don't forget your safety glasses now you hear.

Cletus

[kvom]

Weight is about 3000 lbs, so take it easy with the move.  I have mine sitting on two pieces of 4x4 so that I can move it with a pallet jack.  The good news is that since it's all one big casting you don't need to level it.

The Ward Leonard drive, if still installed, works well.  You have a 7.5HP 3-phase motor driving a DC generator that powers a DC motor to drive the lathe.  Three main types of oil needed.  For the head, filled though the top, use medium heavy oil.ISO 68.  For the spindle bearing light spindle oil.  Plus way oil for the ways.  I get all these from MSC in gallon jugs.  There are sight glasses in the sides to show oil level, but if they are clouded you may want to drain the old oil and replace the plastic lenses.  The other thing to check is whether the way oil pump in the carriage is still working.  Apparently they can get plugged with age.

[Jo]

I'm going to try and get it home this weekend and I promise pics will follow: along with tons of questions I'm sure.

You are going to make us wait another two days   

You can't honestly have been to look at a machine and decided to buy it without taking pictures   


I bet you won't let DOG drool on this one when it arrives 

Jo

[kvom]

If not included in the deal, try to buy as many of the chucks that he has.  D1-3 camlock spindle mount.  Hopefully a camlock chuck key as well. 

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Sorry Jo, actually when I arrived and learned the reason for selling, I kinda had some emotions going on and didn't think about pics. DOG can get away with the drooling, hind leg hiking    Kirk, I did get a three and four jaw along with a collet chuck that looks like yours I believe. I call them speed chucks. I'm sure that I'll be in touch.

Cletus

[Dave Otto]

Sorry Jo, actually when I arrived and learned the reason for selling, I kinda had some emotions going on and didn't think about pics. DOG can get away with the drooling, hind leg hiking    Kirk, I did get a three and four jaw along with a collet chuck that looks like yours I believe. I call them speed chucks. I'm sure that I'll be in touch.

Cletus

Jacobs
 Rubber-flex maybe? if so they are pretty nice.

Dave

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Dave, I didn't see the brand, but, it's one that looks like a baby moon hubcap with a steering wheel around it and a spindle sticking out of the center of it  .

Cletus

[b.lindsey]

Yo Cletus, hope you get that EE home this weekend. Just watching the weather, Irna is gonna swing over your way directly towards Nashville around Tues. or wed. Things could get a bit wet!!

Bill

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Bill, we've gotten the leftovers of all the major storms. It is wet as a sponge here. Cooler than it's been for this time of year in years. We agreed to move it tomorrow afternoon. Y'all stand by for piccys.

Cletus

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Going to bed early. 2:00a.m wake up. 125 slabs of ribs, 80lbs. of wings , 20lbs. of leg quarters, and three briskets to cook and then I'm gonna bring it home 

Cletus

[Steamer5]

Hi Cletus,
 Do you deliver........

 

Cheers Kerrin

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Home with about twenty years of swarf. Date of manufacture 12-44. Hmm didn't something else big happen then. .
 

Cletus

[kvom]

Doesn't look bad at all.  Only thing I notice is that the thread dial lever was either replaced or had the end broken off, and missing the oil hole plugs on the tailstock.

[b.lindsey]

Glad you got it home safe and sound Cletus. A little cleaning up and she'll look good as new!!

Bill

[Dave Otto]

Diamond in the rough! I bet she will clean up nicely!
Did you get the covers that are missing in the picture?

Dave

[steamer]

Round dial!

Vfd?...or original electronics?

[Tennessee Whiskey]

I think the old girl will clean up pretty good. It doesn't appear to have ever  been repainted. I didn't realize it was 7.5hp, so, I'll probably have to get a bigger phase converter. Kirk, not being that familiar with one, I really don't know what is and what isn't. Dave, yeah I have the covers. At 3540 pounds, we were trying to field strip as much weight off as we could. I bet all the covers together are a 200 pounds or more. The collet chuck is a Hardinge and I got a box of old collets, some South Bend, some Hardinge. More to follow.
All original electricals Dave. Big ass D.C. motor to run the big ass AC and now I have to buy another motor to run them 
Cletus

[steamer]

other way around If I recall, it's a AC motor driving a DC generator, which drives a DC spindle drive motor.....which gives you variable speed....Kvom?

[kvom]

Continuously variable speed.  The dial on the spindle indicates the speed.  Control is the far left bottom knob on the headstock.  The lever above the speed control shifts between normal and back gear.

[90LX_Notch]

Very nice Eric.  Enjoy it.

However, please tell me that it is in a temporary location near the business end of that surface grinder.

-Bob

[Jo]

Did you move it with the swarf still in place   

Machine fondling time   

Jo

[ShopShoe]

Oh, That's Nice.

I agree that near the grinder is not good, but it does look like it's at home in your shop already.

Have fun, and I hope you continue to provides updates and photos as you put it into use.

ShopShoe

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Thanks guys for checking on me. I really haven't had time to do much. Yes Jo, three five gallon buckets full plus a big load of fines in the shop vac. I uncovered a brass tag this morning that said:" Department of Defense.    Instrumentality of the United States of America. I also contacted Monarch and ordered a few bits. Boy they sure are proud of them    My phase converter is only good for 5hp, so, looks like more Amex points are forthcoming. Bill, as we say down here: " we done real good moving it" , only thing scratched was my bald head and only thing mashed were a few Budweiser cans  . Y'all come see us.

Cletus

PS: grinder placement issues will be handled

[Dave Otto]

Wow, after something as epic as this, I would have thought you could have found some real beer to celebrate with! 

 
Dave

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Dave, work shirt vs. dress shirt. If I leave a Bud sitting and it gets warm, no big loss, just open a new one. 

Cletus

[kvom]

Just because a motor CAN output 7.5HP doesn't mean it has to.  I'd think your 5HP converter would be up to the task  for most any job a model part would need.

[b.lindsey]

When visiting their website I was surprised to see they still make a version of these. Didn't see any pricing which was probably a good thing 

Bill

[steamer]

When visiting their website I was surprised to see they still make a version of these. Didn't see any pricing which was probably a good thing 

Bill

They build them for the military.....try over 100K....like well over 100K

Dave

[steamer]

Just because a motor CAN output 7.5HP doesn't mean it has to.  I'd think your 5HP converter would be up to the task  for most any job a model part would need.

A most excellent point Kvom....I think 96% of the population would get more scared of a 7.5 HP cut than the machine is...

Dave

[Ian S C]

Accoroding to the vidiothe refurbished ones go for about 100K, so you might be nearer double that for a new one, especially if its for the government, well they have plenty of (your)money.
Ian S C

[steamer]

Accoroding to the vidiothe refurbished ones go for about 100K, so you might be nearer double that for a new one, especially if its for the government, well they have plenty of (your)money.
Ian S C

No doubt.....but if they're buying these for our men and women in uniform, they're spending it right.     The 10EE is an awesome machine.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PLRTIJjWYM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PLRTIJjWYM</a>

[Tennessee Whiskey]

With the price of parts and then add the labor, I bet a factory rebuild would be pretty darn close to that number. Now y'all are going to have to explain more on the phase converter. The rotary phase converter that powers my Bridgeport clone says "good for up to 5hp motors. So, will it start this MG setup without harm but just not give me full power? Don't know much about electricals

Cletus.

[Tennessee Whiskey]

So, for those interested: here's a little update. New phase converter ordered, numerous layers of grime removed ( lots left) , and some parts and manual recieved. I ordered all new felt for the wipers, a feed drive belt ($134.50) , tailstock oil cup and a manual. Now old Cletus is going to tell off on himself. The little thumbscrew that locks the numbers scale on the compound (topslide) was missing. I had about finalized the order when they called me for a problem in the kitchen at work and I remembered the screw. So, I tell the guy to just add one on. He says hang on and I'll get you a price. Well, being in a hurry and being Cletus, I said: "Dude, how much can a thumbscrew be, just send it " Well boys and girls, turns out that that little thumbscrew is chrome plated and that's a haz-mat business in Ohio. So how high you ask: 97 of our good old American freedom dollars.  . Calls them and no returns on chrome plated parts. I should have just kept my mouth shut and went to the kitchen when the women told me to   . I am kinda wondering about the paint job. Everything I've removed has the same color green everywhere( albeit nicey done) even under things, like the tailstock. I'm wondering since it was a Department of Defense item, if they were orered green or painted by an enlisted man, or painted latter in life. Any ideas fellows?

Cletus

[b.lindsey]

Like the old joke, which I won't repeat here...." Damn brother, I don't believe I'd of told that.".  . Hope you got some AMEX points.

Bill

[10KPete]

Don't feel too lonely about that screw. I've been bitten that way quite a few times.

You'd think I would learn.....

Pete

[b.lindsey]

It should be gold plated at least though. Just make sure the shop gnomes don't grab it and run Eric!!

Bill

[kvom]

If you put a DRO on the lathe you'll never look at those numbers again.  Did you notice the round screw on the side of the crossfeed dial?

Turn it all the way in and it restricts the travel to a partial turn.  So when you're cutting threads, after each pass you don't need the numbers to return to the previous setting.  You just turn the dial back until it stops.  Very handy, and you can cut threads at a fairly high RPM.  Hand on the handle and give it a sharp turn to disengage at the end of the thread, while at the same time disengaging the thread dial lever.  Back up, turn the handle back to the stop, and advance the compound for the next pass.

My lathe is a blue grey and I believe that was the original color.  Mine also has the taper attachment and the original 6-jaw chuck.  During wartime they probably used any paint that was handy.

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Hey Pete, you know what they say: "education is expensive" . Bill, I think I know a couple of variations of that joke  . Heck, I bet gold plating is cheaper. Kirk, I have that screw figured out thanks to Abom79. Now, what's the long rod going through the left hand/neutral/ right hand ( I think) knob for on the headstock? I swore when I finished the car restoration, never again, and here I go again  .

Cletus

[10KPete]

Gold? I guess I'm lucky in that the guy who runs the local (small) surplus store also does precious metal plating. Small stuff.
I've had him gold plate a number of Browning triggers, and similar, and they run about $20. I do all the prep and polish....

I've considered setting up a little nickle plate system. It's easy and cheap. Mostly for tool parts....

Pete

[kvom]

That rod is just a carriage stop.  I never have used mine.

Switching the lathe for threading involves four knobs.  The one to the right of the round dial set to thread, the center knob to right or left hand thread, and the dial itself to select the TPI column, and the A/B/C knob to the left to select the row.  How to read the rows depends on how the gears are set up in the far left section next to the belt.  In one position (larger pitch) the A row in on the outside.  For smaller pitches the A row is the inner row.  I generally have mine set for the smaller pitch range.  You also need to pull the reversing knob on the saddle out one click to engage the leadscrew.

When set for feed, the dial and ABC setting give feed per revolution.

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Hey guys, just had a few minutes and thought I would catch up with y’all. First of all, due to employees ( or lack of), a thriving business, geriatric parents, 13 horses, and thirty acres to keep mowed, I’ve kinda been outta the loop. Now I faithfully read all posts each night or early next morning and am still amazed at the work going on here: bravo 👏 . On the Monarch scene: well let’s say she certainly wasn’t a virgin  . Boys I found swarf in places I’d never thought it could get to. The 10EE has a “Bijur oiling system “ that pumps oil to all the ways with  each revolution of the carriage handwheel. Well, that system looked like it was in a muddy Mississippi delta ship wreck, circa 1877, I ain’t never seen such rusty, crusty, soup. All of the oil lines were corroded and are being replaced. Try finding 3/32” & 5/32” copper tubing. I’ll tell you where you find it: a Bijur dealer. The metering nozzles on the system were all pretty clogged and needed extensive cleaning, so I just opted to order new ones, but, after a cleaning, the pump looks good. I’ve found a few bad bearings, mostly ones exposed to the “outside” and they have been replaced. The new three phase wiring is done in the shop and she happily sings up to 2500 rpm and it seems all the original electricals in the machine are performing as required. Good Lord willing, next weekend or maybe sooner, we’ll make some chips. Y’all come see us

Cletus

Cletus

[b.lindsey]

Good to hear from you Cletus!!  Sounds like you are still making progress on the old girl ...looking forward to seeing some pictures.

Bill

[steamer]

Hey guys, just had a few minutes and thought I would catch up with y’all. First of all, due to employees ( or lack of), a thriving business, geriatric parents, 13 horses, and thirty acres to keep mowed, I’ve kinda been outta the loop. Now I faithfully read all posts each night or early next morning and am still amazed at the work going on here: bravo 👏 . On the Monarch scene: well let’s say she certainly wasn’t a virgin  . Boys I found swarf in places I’d never thought it could get to. The 10EE has a “Bijur oiling system “ that pumps oil to all the ways with  each revolution of the carriage handwheel. Well, that system looked like it was in a muddy Mississippi delta ship wreck, circa 1877, I ain’t never seen such rusty, crusty, soup. All of the oil lines were corroded and are being replaced. Try finding 3/32” & 5/32” copper tubing. I’ll tell you where you find it: a Bijur dealer. The metering nozzles on the system were all pretty clogged and needed extensive cleaning, so I just opted to order new ones, but, after a cleaning, the pump looks good. I’ve found a few bad bearings, mostly ones exposed to the “outside” and they have been replaced. The new three phase wiring is done in the shop and she happily sings up to 2500 rpm and it seems all the original electricals in the machine are performing as required. Good Lord willing, next weekend or maybe sooner, we’ll make some chips. Y’all come see us

Cletus

Cletus

Sounds good bud!   Pictures please!!!

Dave