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Well I read this, and say Wow Dave, you sound like a grumpy old curmudgeon! Well....Not quite old yet....though I'm getting there by most standards,Grumpy? well maybe. but not mean......hear me outI want everyone to have fun. If you haven't gaged by my handle, I'm a steam guy have been for some time.I love it when people run steam, and have fun doing it, and showing others how much fun it is. That said.I want everyone to go home with as many eyes, teeth and other various body parts as the came with. Poor practice gets my attention.I especially don't want to see the wondrous eyes of a child hurt by a bad joint, or a broken bit even on a small boiler. That's my own personal nightmare scenario.So lets be safe, and get the facts. There are a good deal of small boilers on this site that run and make steam a plenty. Some have been designed by pro's who really do know how to design and build a hobby boiler. ok......now nuf said.Dave
Quote from: steamer on October 25, 2017, 12:41:28 AMWell I read this, and say Wow Dave, you sound like a grumpy old curmudgeon! Well....Not quite old yet....though I'm getting there by most standards,Grumpy? well maybe. but not mean......hear me outI want everyone to have fun. If you haven't gaged by my handle, I'm a steam guy have been for some time.I love it when people run steam, and have fun doing it, and showing others how much fun it is. That said.I want everyone to go home with as many eyes, teeth and other various body parts as the came with. Poor practice gets my attention.I especially don't want to see the wondrous eyes of a child hurt by a bad joint, or a broken bit even on a small boiler. That's my own personal nightmare scenario.So lets be safe, and get the facts. There are a good deal of small boilers on this site that run and make steam a plenty. Some have been designed by pro's who really do know how to design and build a hobby boiler. ok......now nuf said.DaveHi Dave,Sorry that I have in any way caused you so much grief. My aim in life ( what little time I do have left ) surely is not to upset anyone for any reason.I shared my build on MY Boiler here on MEM because several members asked that I do so.I had over forty years designing and engineering for both the petrochemical and the marine industry with a stellar reputation. I am approved and certified by both the United States Coast Guard ( mic number IAT ) and the American Bureau of Shipping. If you consider my build and information here as "poor practice" then delete the post. Sorry that you did not have the time to PM me if I was causing a problem.Again, I do apologize to you and everyone else that I have offended in any form or fashion.I will withdraw my offer of free plans on this unit.You have a wonderful day now.Thomas
Thomas, you have been presenting an interesting boiler design and I appreciate your efforts and preparedness to share your journey with us, so please continue with your work, I would have liked to see the plans. Boiler design, especially in the model community has always been ultra-conservative and reactionary when it comes to challenging the dominant ideology or paradigms. In Australia builders of gauge one boilers suffered some unnecessary interference from the model code masters who imposed a sub-miniature boiler code, legally binding. Some experienced builders objected and were publicly criticised, but their experiments have shown the code writers were not up to the game. Some attempts at destructive testing of little boilers failed, they did not blow up or otherwise fail at enormous pressures, e.g. 1000psi. Also of late, a low crown type loco boiler has been built in 7/8ths scale principally for coal burning and it has shown its merits, one merit, demonstrated practically, that running it dry without any attempt to pull the fire does not overheat the materials or endanger the integrity of the boiler, the design was also analysed by computer modelling and again proved sound. I understand the code is now going to be re-written. Please note; the above is an illustration of my argument, it is an overly brief summary, not intended to 'guide' a builder and in no way supports BAD PRACTICE, design wise or in workmanship.So Thomas, you are presenting something challenging to the thinking of many people who I suspect may not be privy to all your thinking and all the data you are using. Of course I am assuming you are competent and diligent, as I expect most of the questioners of your ideas are, but there should be no accusations of poor practice unless it is proven to be the case and there is a need to be aware even proven formulae might need to be interpreted or adapted to accomodate a design that might not fit too neatly. Experimentation and challenging tribal thinking is what got us to where we are in the modern world. There is no reason why such challenging should not occur in the model world or be freely communicated. Please continue with your work so we may see the results and learn. Regards, Paul Gough.
Quote from: ddmckee54 on September 06, 2017, 08:36:29 PMThomas:Don't know if you've already covered this or not, but I've got a couple of questions.1) What are you using for a heating element?2) How did you determine if that heating element would be large enough to supply the volume of steam you need at the pressure you want?I've been kicking this idea around in my head for a while, and I've found information that will hopefully allow me to convert Lbs/hour of steam into Watts. From this I SHOULD be able to determine the heater size needed to run a specified size of engine at a given RPM. BUT, I don't have a lot of confidence in my calculations. What can I say, I'm a EE, not an ME - I wrangle angry pixies for a living.DonHi Don,I have ordered a Camco 1000 watt screw in element ( has 1" thread ) which will provide plenty of continues steam at 20 psi. I have built similar units in the past with much larger volume of water ( over 2 gallons ) and used the same element, so I did not do any calculations for this smaller Boiler. The Camco is a 120vac unit and I will control it with a 25A SSR via the Digital Controller. The Controller will be connected to the Boiler with a RTD that is inserted in the water at the same level as the element ( see my drawing ). I will be able to set both an "upper" and "lower" limit on the temperature so as to maintain a constant water temperature even as the water level ( volume ) drops. If the temp gets too high (my preset value) the unit will shut down and must be Reset before it can be started again. I will also have audible alarms ( not at the very first ) to give a warning before the temp reaches the preset value.Thank you,Thomas
Thomas:Don't know if you've already covered this or not, but I've got a couple of questions.1) What are you using for a heating element?2) How did you determine if that heating element would be large enough to supply the volume of steam you need at the pressure you want?I've been kicking this idea around in my head for a while, and I've found information that will hopefully allow me to convert Lbs/hour of steam into Watts. From this I SHOULD be able to determine the heater size needed to run a specified size of engine at a given RPM. BUT, I don't have a lot of confidence in my calculations. What can I say, I'm a EE, not an ME - I wrangle angry pixies for a living.Don
Quote from: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 06, 2017, 09:53:48 PMQuote from: ddmckee54 on September 06, 2017, 08:36:29 PMThomas:Don't know if you've already covered this or not, but I've got a couple of questions.1) What are you using for a heating element?2) How did you determine if that heating element would be large enough to supply the volume of steam you need at the pressure you want?I've been kicking this idea around in my head for a while, and I've found information that will hopefully allow me to convert Lbs/hour of steam into Watts. From this I SHOULD be able to determine the heater size needed to run a specified size of engine at a given RPM. BUT, I don't have a lot of confidence in my calculations. What can I say, I'm a EE, not an ME - I wrangle angry pixies for a living.DonHi Don,I have ordered a Camco 1000 watt screw in element ( has 1" thread ) which will provide plenty of continues steam at 20 psi. I have built similar units in the past with much larger volume of water ( over 2 gallons ) and used the same element, so I did not do any calculations for this smaller Boiler. The Camco is a 120vac unit and I will control it with a 25A SSR via the Digital Controller. The Controller will be connected to the Boiler with a RTD that is inserted in the water at the same level as the element ( see my drawing ). I will be able to set both an "upper" and "lower" limit on the temperature so as to maintain a constant water temperature even as the water level ( volume ) drops. If the temp gets too high (my preset value) the unit will shut down and must be Reset before it can be started again. I will also have audible alarms ( not at the very first ) to give a warning before the temp reaches the preset value.Thank you,Thomas Hi Thomas, i have just seen your thread on this site and am wondering where one can source these elements and how much the Camco element is. I use the Radiospares cartridge heater that are about £40 !! I don't know why i have not seen this thread before. Looks like a very satisfactory set up Will keep in touch......Willy
Thomas, you have been presenting an interesting boiler design and I appreciate your efforts and preparedness to share your journey with us, so please continue with your work, I would have liked to see the plans. Regards, Paul Gough.
What does a steam trap do?
Quote from: crueby on November 12, 2017, 03:50:02 PMWhat does a steam trap do?Hello Chris,It helps to reduce the "wet steam" from going into an engine. In practice it "traps" the wet steam in the bottom and allows the "dry steam" to exit out the top port to the engine. The valve on the bottom can be opened from time to time (even while the engine is running) to discharge the accumulated water. Your shovel project is looking fantastic.Have a great day,Thomas