Author Topic: Exploring 3D printing in metal  (Read 1446 times)

Offline MMan

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2017, 01:09:43 PM »
Hi Mike,

Just an idle thought.

I am guessing you are more concerned with tolerancing around the flanges than the open end - would they let you provide a tooling plate to hold the flanges all in place? Flat piece of steel with dowels or studs?

All the best,

Martin.

Online Vixen

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2017, 03:19:21 PM »
Hello Martin and everyone.

I have found this video/animation of the SS infused bronze process, which explains a lot. More useful information for the knowledge base.

The SS is held together with a glue binder. The binder is burnt out as the molten bronze infuses through the powdered SS. While the Bronze is still liquid the object being printed has no strength and is supported only by the inert black powder. It is difficult to see how a tooling plate could be attached to the SS + binder. It looks like there is more to be gained in printing a strong back bridge to hold the four flanges in position and so reduce the warping. The bridge can be ground off later.

It's interesting how they bridge the gaps in the feed runners with more loose SS powder and note the substantial ring support surrounding the turbine blades. It's all part of learning to use the process correctly

 

Mike
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Offline crueby

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2017, 05:01:54 PM »
fascinating video - thanks!

Offline Fowellbox

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2017, 06:12:25 PM »
fascinating video - thanks!

I agree, shame about the booooy music!
Brian

Offline crueby

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2017, 06:53:51 PM »
fascinating video - thanks!

I agree, shame about the booooy music!
Brian
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Online b.lindsey

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2017, 12:25:57 AM »
I have been following this thread with interest but was under the impression that the current state of technology was to print parts directly from the final desired metallic material (in powder form) but then laser fused together without any infusion requirement or secondary steps. For example, a surgeon laser scanning a patients hip joint, transferring the data to a 3D printer there in the operating room, and then printing the needed ball and socket implants directly in titanium for example. The last time I checked, I thought this type of system was available, though still in the $600k to $1 million price range. Is the two step process just a less expensive way to get to a similar end result?

Bill

Online Vixen

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2017, 09:39:23 AM »
Bill,

You are correct, high power lasers are used to directly melt (sinter) pure metal powder to form very accurate 3D objects, like titanium surgical implants etc. The equipment is very expensive and the cost of each print is also expensive

Low cost, two stage, processes have been developed to reduce production costs. Ink jet technology is used to bind (glue) stainless steel metal powder into the required shape. Bronze is then melted and infused into the stainless steel to give it strength. This process can be ten times less expensive than direct laser sintering but the printed object is less accurate.

There is another low cost, two stage, process which prints a wax object which is used to cast brass, bronze or precious metal objects, using the lost wax casting techniques.

If you go back and check post #1 of this topic, you will find price comparisons for the various technologies. I will add the comparable lost wax prices when they become available

Mike
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Online b.lindsey

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2017, 11:45:24 AM »
Thanks for the clarification Mike!

Bill

Online Vixen

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2017, 12:08:22 PM »
Bill,

The low cost, two stage, metal printing processes are easily within reach of model engine builders, especially for small intricate items like rocker arms etc. which can be difficult to make by conventional means.

As model engine makers, we are used to buying castings (some are inveterate collectors) so the idea of buying a 3D printed item should be quite acceptable.

Mike
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 01:19:48 PM by Vixen »
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Online b.lindsey

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2017, 01:13:03 PM »
Mike,  I think as the pricing for 3D printing continues to come down for metals, just as it has for plastics, we may well see 3D printed "kits" replace casting kits, in the not too distant future. It certainly has some interesting implications for the hobby overall doesn't it?

Bill

Offline kvom

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2017, 01:51:56 AM »
It's possible to print sand for molds these days using resin filler.

Online Jasonb

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2017, 07:45:53 AM »
It's possible to print sand for molds these days using resin filler.

Yes

Online Vixen

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2017, 11:42:18 AM »
I am sure that when it becomes more widely available, the '3D printed sand mold' technique will have much more to offer the model engine maker than 3D printed metal parts. Currently the availability of 3D printed sand mold is limited to top-end aerospace and specialist foundries.

The 3D printed sand mold is much favored by the historic car restoration companies such as Crossthwaite and Gardner or Jim Stokes Workshops. If you have a cool 6 million to spend, C+G will build you an exact replica of one of the legendary Auto Union Silver Arrows cars from the 1930's. Exact in all respects except for the letter R cast into each part. This is to denote the car is merely a 6M replica, not a priceless original.

This short video shows a vintage aircraft engine crankcase being re-manufactured using the 3D printed sand technique. From 3D scanning, production drawings, molten metal flow simulations, editing the 3D model to compensate for shrinkage and addition of material on the machined faces, printing the sand molds, the foundry and final machining. Other than pouring the hot metal, everything is digital.

Have a look at



Hopefully, in the not too distant future, the 3D printed sand molds will be more widely available, perhaps the 3D printing buraux may also offer this service at a sensible price.

Mike

Sorry about this sound track as well Brian, you can always try the volume control.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 12:16:25 PM by Vixen »
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Offline Steamer5

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2017, 01:24:22 AM »
Hi Mike,
 That's a great video!  I don't think SWMBO would allow a workshop expansion to tool up! Really neat to see this stuff. A friend of my Dad's has been working on some Rolls Royce  restoration for some years & one included a complete new gear box, RR cast it form them, cost a cool $40 k! But that was the easy bit, the machining was very complex to tight tolerance
Cheers Kerrin
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Online Vixen

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Re: Exploring 3D printing in metal
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2017, 02:57:35 PM »
I now have a full set of prices from Sculpteo with which we can compare the various materials and techniques used for 3D metal printing.

In addition to this post, I have updated post #1 so that the information is available as soon as you access this topic.



This is the component I have used for all the cost comparisons. As you can see this exhaust header was considerably larger than the previously described parts. It consists of four flanges and four intersecting pipes each 11 mm in diameter. It would be difficult, but not impossible, to fabricate from tubes and silver solder. 3D metal printing offered a much easier alternative.

Sculpteo are slightly less expensive of the three firms contacted and offered to make one exhaust header in various materials for the following prices:

Laser printed rigid white plastic   12  dimensionally very accurate. This plastic is an ideal way to prove the 3D model and for trial fitting.

Laser sintered aluminium 122  dimensionally accurate

Laser sintered S316 stainless steel 252   dimensionally accurate

Laser sintered titanium  309   dimensionally accurate

Binder printed stainless steel infused with bronze  24  Dimensional errors up to 3 to 4 %  Long thin items can bend and warp. The stainless steel powder is printed with a binder. then bronze powder is melted in a special furnace which infuses into the stainless steel.

Binder printed S316 stainless steel  no price available as the exhaust header was too big for the printer

Lost Wax cast brass 171. Dimensional errors up to 4 %  The lost wax model is laser printed, invested and cast, on site by Sculpteo. The dimensional accuracy can be improved by modifying the 3D model by a few %. Expensive trial and error. Limited to a 75 x 75 x 75 wax print envelope.

Lost Wax cast silver 207. Dimensional errors up to 4 %  Intended for the jewelry trade. The lost wax model is laser printed, invested and cast, on site by Sculpteo. The dimensional accuracy can be improved by modifying the 3D model by a few %. Expensive trial and error. Limited to a 75 x 75 x 75 wax print envelope.

Lost Wax cast aluminium. Lost wax cast aluminium was on trial and is no longer offered.

Shipping was typically 15 per item

The bottom line appears to suggest 3D printed metal is more suitable for smaller items than the large exhaust header used as an example in this exercise.

"If you require accuracy; you cannot afford it. If you want it to be affordable then it wont be too accurate"



« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 03:57:42 PM by Vixen »
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