Author Topic: Is it a bird, is it a plane?  (Read 3371 times)

Offline RayW

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 360
Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« on: August 20, 2017, 07:10:00 PM »
With loads of air and military shows going on this weekend in the surrounding area, the skies have been pretty interesting. Yesterday, the B17 Flying Fortress "Sally B" went over but I didn't have the camera handy, so I was more prepared today, with Spitfire, Catalina flying boat, and an unidentified American WWII fighter, which I am sure one of our members will identify. Apologies for the rather poor quality pic of the Spitfire, but light was not good and it was moving away rather fast.

As a point of interest, Spitfire rides are available from Biggin Hill airfied in Kent, so if you have the odd 2250 to spare, you know where to go. We see the two seater Spitfire go over pretty much every day in the Summer, and every time we hear that distinctive engine note, we still can't help rushing out to see it.

Ray
Ray

Offline b.lindsey

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12421
  • Dallas, NC, USA
    • Workbench-Miniatures
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2017, 07:27:20 PM »
Those are great Ray!!! I would be outside watching all weekend too!!

Bill

Offline Nick_G

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2017, 07:54:27 PM »
.
Hi,

I 'think' this is a Harvard. If so they were used as a training stepping stone before a full blown fighter.



Nick

Online Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11779
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2017, 08:09:55 PM »
Looks like ANG 493209 which is based at Biggin Hill.

Jo
Usus est optimum magister

Offline Bluechip

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 740
  • Derbyshire
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2017, 08:11:51 PM »
Try this:


The racket starts @ 04:02

Might I suggest headphones pressed to ears, full bass and as much volume as you can stand.

This clip reminds me of my ( mercifully ) one and only casual flight in a AVRO Shackleton f( and I thought it might be nice   :insane:  )

The 4 Griffons are even noisier ...

Dave

« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 08:26:16 PM by Bluechip »

Offline RayW

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 360
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2017, 08:24:09 PM »
Thanks all. Quite right Jo, it is 493209. Does that mean it is a Harvard as Nick suggests?
Great video Dave, and what an incredible noise those engines make.
Ray

Offline Nick_G

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2017, 08:36:01 PM »
.
Harvard or Texan depending on which part of the world you are from.

Nick

Online Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11779
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2017, 08:51:42 PM »
Thanks all. Quite right Jo, it is 493209. Does that mean it is a Harvard as Nick suggests?

Yes, Here she is: http://www.t6harvard.com/G-DDMV_history.html

Technical Details: http://www.t6harvard.com/T6_harvard_technical.html

Jo
Usus est optimum magister

Offline gerritv

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 495
  • St Catharines, ON
    • Gerrit's Hobbies
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2017, 08:56:21 PM »
We have the Lancaster fly over multiple times a week on its way from Hamilton over Niagara Falls and back. A very definitive sound that my parents heard very often, having survived WWII in Amsterdam.

Flights in B17's are available in various places in NA, I took a flight in 2015:

Gerrit
Don't confuse activity with progress

Offline RayW

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 360
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2017, 10:08:20 PM »
Hi Gerrit. I was lucky enough to see your Lancaster several times when it visited the UK and toured with the British one from the Battle of Britain Flight. Truly a magnificent, and probably not to be repeated, sight.
Ray

Offline zeeprogrammer

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6327
  • West Chester, PA, USA
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2017, 11:28:12 PM »
You can get a ride on a Spitfire? And a B-17?

That's going to have to go on my bucket list along with parachuting.

Unfortunately...that portion of the bucket list is also described as "T will never let me"  :'(
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline jadge

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Cambridge, UK
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2017, 12:23:38 AM »
I live quite close to Duxford, so see a lot of WWII aircraft. I saw the B17 a couple of weeks ago; it was an overcast day, so it went over the bungalow at about 600ft, marvellous. I saw it last year too, as it flew underneath me when I was circling in the glider between Kimbolton and Thurleigh airfields, both of which operated B17s in WWII.

The sound of the Harvard is primarily propeller noise. The tips can go transonic, producing the distinctive rasping noise.

On my bucket list is a course emulating RAF WWII training at Duxford, so a couple of flights in a Tiger Moth, followed by the Harvard, followed by two flights in a Spitfire. I learnt to fly on Tiger Moths, so it would be fun to fly one again. It's going to cost an arm and a leg, but a pension advisor has recently said that as I get older I need to grasp the concept of deaccumulation, ie, start spending money rather than saving it. Flying a Spitfire seems like a good way to start. I'd like to fly a Mustang too.

Parachuting no way though. I wear a parachute in the glider but I'd only use it if the glider disintegrated around me.

Andrew

Offline zeeprogrammer

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6327
  • West Chester, PA, USA
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2017, 12:37:02 AM »
It's going to cost an arm and a leg, but a pension advisor has recently said that as I get older I need to grasp the concept of deaccumulation, ie, start spending money rather than saving it.

I think of that a lot too. The problem I have is predicting that end point.  ;D
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline gerritv

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 495
  • St Catharines, ON
    • Gerrit's Hobbies
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2017, 02:40:20 AM »
It's going to cost an arm and a leg, but a pension advisor has recently said that as I get older I need to grasp the concept of deaccumulation, ie, start spending money rather than saving it.

I think of that a lot too. The problem I have is predicting that end point.  ;D

If you wait too long, then it will be too late. Live each day like it is your last. After 60-65 that is the way to do it, we've earned it :-)
https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/flight-experiences/aluminum-overcast-eaa-b-17-bomber-tour/b-17-aluminum-overcast-tour-stops

The Lancaster is very pricey, and not too many seats on board (CAD3500). I have to pass on that one unfortunately. Lots of other choices though, you should visit sometime: http://www.warplane.com/aircraft/flights/buy.aspx. While here you can try some of the 60 or so wineries in the area and distilleries along with excellent food.


Gerrit
Don't confuse activity with progress

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7215
  • Rochester NY
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2017, 03:08:46 AM »
It's going to cost an arm and a leg, but a pension advisor has recently said that as I get older I need to grasp the concept of deaccumulation, ie, start spending money rather than saving it.

I think of that a lot too. The problem I have is predicting that end point.  ;D

If you wait too long, then it will be too late. Live each day like it is your last. After 60-65 that is the way to do it, we've earned it :-)
https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/flight-experiences/aluminum-overcast-eaa-b-17-bomber-tour/b-17-aluminum-overcast-tour-stops

The Lancaster is very pricey, and not too many seats on board (CAD3500). I have to pass on that one unfortunately. Lots of other choices though, you should visit sometime: http://www.warplane.com/aircraft/flights/buy.aspx. While here you can try some of the 60 or so wineries in the area and distilleries along with excellent food.


Gerrit
The warplane museum in Hamilton is a wonderful one, well worth the visit. Also near there is the steam museum with a very large twin beam pumping engine, fascinating to see.

Offline RayW

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 360
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2017, 07:45:24 AM »
Just been looking again at prices of Spitfire flights and seems I was a bit optimistic with my original figure. Prices start at 2550 for a 20 minute trip and go up to 4800 for a 55 minute flight over the white cliffs of Dover.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 07:48:43 AM by RayW »
Ray

Offline Bluechip

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 740
  • Derbyshire
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2017, 09:23:08 AM »
Just been looking again at prices of Spitfire flights and seems I was a bit optimistic with my original figure. Prices start at 2550 for a 20 minute trip and go up to 4800 for a 55 minute flight over the white cliffs of Dover.

Strewth! ...  4800! ... Does that include ammunition or do you have to supply your own ?

Dave

Online Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11779
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2017, 09:30:48 AM »
Actually Knowing the running costs I was thinking the original price was cheap  ::)

I think I would prefer the Needles rather than the White Cliffs  ;)

Jo

P.S. Spitfire hire charges are normally 3K an hour (the plane only has 40 mins fuel on board) that includes maintenance, ground charges, etc... Plus pilot hourly charge....
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 12:09:04 PM by Jo »
Usus est optimum magister

Offline Nick_G

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2017, 09:46:02 AM »

Strewth! ...  4800! ... Does that include ammunition or do you have to supply your own ?

Dave

.
The money would be the least of your problems as Jo would be in a ME109 that she had hired and eager to dogfight.  ;)

Nick  ;)

Online Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11779
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2017, 09:59:42 AM »

The money would be the least of your problems as Jo would be in a ME109 that she had hired and eager to dogfight.  ;)


No I would fell happier in one of the planes I helped design,  a few years ago  :facepalm2:

Would a Spit show up on the old radar  :thinking: probably, probably better than a Hurricane would  :naughty:

Jo
Usus est optimum magister

Offline Bluechip

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 740
  • Derbyshire
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2017, 10:02:52 AM »

The money would be the least of your problems as Jo would be in a ME109 that she had hired and eager to dogfight.  ;)

Nick  ;)


Get it right, Jo would have rented the ME109. The folk she got it from would be the hirer.  :facepalm:

In any case I would look upon that as an act of war and I would immediately impose sanctions. Ie. Refuse to export my surplus onions on the grounds that they are Strategic Materials.   ( PS. Said onions are drying nicely now ) 

Dave  :old:

Offline RayW

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 360
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2017, 10:59:58 AM »

Pleased to see that we have so many aviation enthusiasts in our midst. Here are a few more photos that you might like. First, for Gerrit, we have the Canadian and British Lancasters in formation along the Kent coast, then a nice close up of a Hurricane, and finally for something completely different - this, believe it or not, is how Heathrow airport was in the early days, with crowds relaxing on the grass right at the side of the runways. They even had kiddies rides there, only yards from the planes landing!
And those folk right in the foreground are my parents.
I was about four at the time and was taken up for a pleasure flight in a lovely DeHavilland Rapide. I even got to hold the pilots sandwiches!!
Ray

Offline Steamer5

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1022
  • The "Naki" New Zealand
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2017, 12:12:04 PM »
Thanks for posting the pictures!

I'm lucky enuff to live close to the flight path from our local airport, the boys have several Harvards, a Catalina, & several X Russian jets Plus another whos name escapes me, nice days & the toys come out!

A couple of years back we got a tour thru the Hamilton Lancaster just prior to her going to the UK, she was still warm from a flight earlier in the day. The gentleman that showed us thru said they have a couple of guys from here come over regularly for a flight! We have a Lancaster here in NZ that doesn't fly.....yet... that thankfully is now under cover, but shes 5 hours drive away.

Cheers Kerrin
Get excited and make something!

Offline michaelr

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2017, 04:28:30 PM »

Offline jadge

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Cambridge, UK
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2017, 07:36:42 PM »
I was about four at the time and was taken up for a pleasure flight in a lovely DeHavilland Rapide. I even got to hold the pilots sandwiches!!

Funny you should mention that. In a few weeks time I'm treating my mum to a flight over London in a DH Rapide from Duxford. I've not flown in one before. But my mum has, in the late 1940s when someone, she can't remember who, lobbed into Redhill in one and said did anyone want a flight. Of course my mum was first in the queue.

Andrew

Offline Ian S C

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1004
  • Stirling Engine Maker Darfield Canterbury N Z
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2017, 12:17:04 PM »
We have a number of warbirds here in NZ, ranging from a two seat Spitfire, and Mustang, a number of Harvards, and a couple of Strikemasters.
Here's a shot of a friend of mine celebrating his 80th birthday, cost $NZ 1200 for twenty minutes(the flight was nearer 30 min).  Ian S C

Online Tennessee Whiskey

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3630
  • Springfield, Tennessee. USA
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2017, 07:09:58 PM »
Being a licensed pilot ( not currently current) I am really into this thread. However, being one that only cares for "straight and level flight" ( with a few steep turns) I don't know how I would get along with a true "fighter" ride. Heck, I even argued about "stall training" : I said you are teaching me how to avoid it and now you are wanting me to perform it  :facepalm::. I had a great uncle who was on a refueling plane in WWII and there are some "PX camera" photos in the family that are awesome. I'll admit that the reason I gave up flying was because it was more addictive and expensive than anything I was exposed to in the '70's and '80's   :lolb: :lolb:. Sure do miss those late evening flights in a 172 and sunset landings on old Runway 22 at M91. Hmm, most of the tooling is in good shape  :thinking:. Maybe it's time for a medical and recurrency  check ride  8) .

Cletus

Offline jadge

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Cambridge, UK
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2017, 09:54:26 PM »
However, being one that only cares for "straight and level flight" ( with a few steep turns) I don't know how I would get along with a true "fighter" ride.

I'm the complete opposite, I rarely fly straight and level.  :embarassed:

In a glider one never flies straight and level. You're always climbing or descending, and changing direction for the best looking clouds. And of course we spend a lot of time going round in circles.  ::)  Way back in the 1980s when stubble fires were legal in the UK it was fun to play a game of how many times you could climb in the same fire. The idea was to climb to the top (could be 5000ft) and then spin down to 1000ft and climb up in the fire again, and so on.

I learnt to fly on a Tiger Moth and steep turns and spinning were all part of the deal. The Tiger Moth has some central bracing wires in front of the cockpit. When they are on the horizon you're at about 60 bank. One had to do a figure of eight at 60 of bank one way, reverse to 60 of bank the other way and you got extra points for hitting the propeller wake. Although spinning was not part of the official syllabus the CFI (ex-WWII bomber pilot) said that since the Tiger Moth would spin he expected you to demonstrate three turns of a spin and recovery in each direction. Good fun!

Andrew

Online Tennessee Whiskey

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3630
  • Springfield, Tennessee. USA
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2017, 10:23:31 PM »
Spin an aircraft, oh Hell no. When I got my ticket we were required to be proficient in spins,but, we didn't have to execute. I can read you the procedure frontwards and backwards, but I've never executed one. I do remember the time my CFI made me hold the 172 in a deep stall and right before she rolled over on her back, he said: "this is what it feels like right before you spin " I did the textbook recovery and said " yeah, here's how you recover " Good job Coach  :lolb:

Cletus

Offline Walsheng

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 210
  • Norfolk, MA
    • Walsh Engineering
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2017, 01:09:32 AM »
I learned to fly in a 1948 Piper Vagabond that was 30 years old and my instructor was an ex air force fighter pilot (and just a touch crazy!)
He decided one day to try a roll, in a plane that had probably never been upside down.  Do you know how much dirt and crap accumulate on the floor in 30 years?  I didn't, but I know now!!!

John

Offline Flyboy Jim

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1489
  • Independence, Oregon
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2017, 03:28:46 AM »
Did my spin training in a 1941 Interstate Cadet. The spin training itself wasn't too bad, but the idea of doing it in an airplane that was 5 years older than me was!  :insane:

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill
"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline Ian S C

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1004
  • Stirling Engine Maker Darfield Canterbury N Z
Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane?
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2017, 10:33:26 AM »
By all accounts the Cadet is a bit beaffier than a Piper Cub, looks a good solid machine.
Ian S C