Author Topic: Coles Challenger V8  (Read 4853 times)

Offline ausdier

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Re: Coles Challenger V8
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2016, 02:17:41 PM »
Hi Jo.

Those head parts look very much like they are Black Widow parts ?   :shrug:
Which isn't an overhead cam ?


Online Jo

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Re: Coles Challenger V8
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2016, 02:19:34 PM »
The last photo are Black Widow parts but they look remarkably like the castings that come with this Challenger  :headscratch:

Jo
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Offline Allen Smithee

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Re: Coles Challenger V8
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2016, 02:22:22 PM »
Hi Jo.

Those head parts look very much like they are Black Widow parts ?   :shrug:
Which isn't an overhead cam ?

They're talking about an Overhead VALVE conversion (presumably retaining the side-valve version's cam-in-the-V and pushrods) rather than an Overhead CAM conversion (which would need twin camshafts and no pushrods).

AS
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Offline ausdier

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Re: Coles Challenger V8
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2016, 02:27:10 PM »
Hi Jo.

Those head parts look very much like they are Black Widow parts ?   :shrug:
Which isn't an overhead cam ?

They're talking about an Overhead VALVE conversion (presumably retaining the side-valve version's cam-in-the-V and pushrods) rather than an Overhead CAM conversion (which would need twin camshafts and no pushrods).

AS

Just saying what the parts look like to me ???

Online Jo

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Re: Coles Challenger V8
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2017, 08:27:02 AM »
 :whoohoo:  :cartwheel:  :whoohoo:  :cartwheel:  :whoohoo:

A very nice man has sent me the drawings for the overhead valve conversion.

Jo
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Offline gbritnell

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Re: Coles Challenger V8
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2017, 01:11:30 PM »
Hi Jo,
 This was the response I posted several days back but got lost in the redo of the website. I was having trouble posting so I wrote it as a word document and actually hadn't deleted it.

I can't help you with the drawings but I can give you some advice.
The first thing is the Coles Challenger engine is a flathead based on a Cadillac V-8 rather than a Ford V-8. The difference being that the Cadillac has the exhaust coming out of the top of the block as opposed to the side of the block. That being said when making the flathead version all the porting, intake and exhaust, comes out the top so a decision should be made at the start which configuration one wants. That's not to say that the two versions couldn't be interchanged but if the flathead was built first then it would require valve guides to be pressed into the block and these most likely would have to be removed by using the overhead  heads.
The beauty of the kit is using the finned aluminum heads which replicates a hot-rod type flathead engine.
Another thing to consider is the cooling on the flathead version would probably be different than the OHV engine. The Challenger puts water into the block then into the heads and has a crossover tube at the back of the heads to make the circulation path. On the OHV version there might not be room in the heads to drill adequate passageways to circulate the coolant.
I know some of the fellows that belong the the Bay Area Engine Modelers group, Ken Hurst is one of them, have used the basic Challenger block as a starting point for some of their conversions.
The one engine is known as the Black Widow. There are plenty of videos on Youtube showing both the flathead version, built by Ron Colonna, and the OHV style.
My scratch built V-8 is similar to the Cadillac style Challenger engine with the top exiting exhaust. I actually started on drawings to make it an OHV type engine much like the Ardun conversions that were used in the hot-rod era.
gbritnell
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Online Jo

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Re: Coles Challenger V8
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2017, 02:13:47 PM »
Thanks George  8)

Honestly I know little about your American car engines: I thought a Cadillac was a model made by Ford  :-[

I was wondering about if it would be possible to make this engine if it could swop over between a OHV and a flat head. I will have to have a think about the various challenges. The bolt holes on the OHV are different from the flat head and the oil ways come up through the centre of the block, maybe sleeves for the valve guides that could be removed for the push rods if I wanted to run as a OHV  :noidea: Then there is the question about a flat crank or getting the angles right.... There will be lots of things that can be done with this engine.

I still don't have a drawing of a carb for it  :thinking:

Jo

P.S. The very nice man who sent me the drawings thinks I should be planning to make his V12 as well  :paranoia:
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Offline stevehuckss396

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Re: Coles Challenger V8
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2017, 07:28:28 PM »
Thanks George  8)

Honestly I know little about your American car engines: I thought a Cadillac was a model made by Ford  :-[


CLOSE! Story goes like this.

Henry ford started an automotive car company called the Detroit Automobile Company. He and 3 investors were the core of the company. Some say he was a little too focused on racing cars and not manufacturing them. Others believe he spent to much time perfecting designs which frustrated the investors. Unhappy with has performance the investors fired him and reorganized and renamed the company Cadillac Motors. Shortly after that he started the Ford Motor Co.
Do not be like the cat who wanted a fish but was afraid to get his paws wet.

Offline gadabout

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Re: Coles Challenger V8
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2017, 07:34:33 AM »
Jo, you mention the nice manifolds by a Steve H, I am starting a challenger and think I can make most of it from billet but would love to get a set of exhaust and inlet manifolds for it ! Are the ones in the posted pictures made by Steve H? Where can I get some?

thanks
Mark

Online Jo

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Re: Coles Challenger V8
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2017, 07:41:09 AM »
Sorry Mark no idea  :(

My Challenger turned up in a workshop clearance and my Supplier rapidly acquired it and sold it to me for a vast profit  :stickpoke: Even so it was a reasonable price  ::)

There was also a couple of bits of a Holt with it but we never tracked that set of castings down  :-\

Jo
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Offline gadabout

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Re: Coles Challenger V8
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2017, 08:34:42 AM »
Jo , thanks! I am also missing drawings number L 313, L323 and L 739 ( all camshaft related) and one for the valve springs , do you have those drawings that I could get a copy of?
thanks
Mark

Online Jo

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Re: Coles Challenger V8
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2017, 08:54:30 AM »
I don't have those in my set of drawings either.

There are a lot of gaps in the drawing numbers.

Jo
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