Author Topic: Beginner - what drill bits to start?  (Read 5314 times)

Offline matthew-s

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Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« on: July 23, 2017, 02:38:59 PM »
Hi - I am a rank beginner, and have been very slowly building up a set of tools.  I think I'm finally at the point where I can start making things.
I don't have a set of drill bits though.  What should I start with?  I'd rather get a small set of good bits than a huge set of so-so bits.

I also will be making things on an Atlas 618, a Taig mill, and an 1/2" Atlas bench-top drill press.  Hopefully that gives you the sense of the size of models I will be building. I plan on starting with a Stuart S50 and then see where the hobby takes me from there.

For starters, I'm under the impression I should get HSS bits in screw machine length, but I'm less certain after that.  Get a "numbered" set? Fractional set? Metric?!?

Thanks!

Offline Stuart

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2017, 02:47:55 PM »
As you are building a Stuart model the fixings are BA 7ba to be precise
As BA is a metric thread then get only the bits you need a good set will cost £100 in 0.1 mm steps you will not need them all off hand 7 ba is 2.1mm tapping and 2.5 clearance
But you will also need taps

Get the kit look at the drawing and get what you need you will also need readers

My preference is dormer spilt point drill bits
My aim is for a accurate part with a good finish

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2017, 02:58:43 PM »
Hi Just my pennyworth of info on drill bits.....It may/will be cheaper to by the actual bits you "need" in packets of ten rather than the full sets. This way you will always have a bit that is really sharp, and won't have to wait a few days to replace it ,when/ if you break it, also if you need a slightly larger hole you can always sharpen it off centre? and also when you need to drill brass you can slightly relieve the face to make it scrape rather than cut...........I am talking more about small No size bits down to 16BA here.......interesting to see what other people say about this.....this has been my own experience after 60 odd years of learning on the job!!! good luck with your new activities and you always learn far more on the first time you do anything than on the next times. When drilling always listen to what is happening as well as looking. And on the subject of tapping size drills allways go for a larger size drill ....ie in my books it says when drilling a hole for 12BA use a No 60 drill , i will never do this but use a No57 drill .hoping this may speed up your learning curve.
Willy.........Also if you buy the packet of ten you also have a supply of drill rod to use as a pin after you have drilled the hole, just use a Dremell grinding disk to cut a bit off the "blunt" end !!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 03:06:17 PM by steam guy willy »

Offline Vixen

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2017, 03:04:40 PM »
Mathew

The best motto to learn is "where can I buy adequate quality" never ask "where can I buy the cheapest". Always avoid all bargain  basement tools.

A good quality box set of inch # 1-60 or metric drills in 0.1 mm steps from 1.0mm to 6.0mm (or better 1.0mm to 12mm if you can afford them) will be an investment for all your model engineering days. You can replace individual drills as necessary.

Mike
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 03:10:49 PM by Vixen »
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

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Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2017, 03:07:33 PM »
Matthew, looking at your profile info. I assume you are in the Boston area of the USA. it would help to know if you plan on doing metric or imperial work most of the time. Even plans it castings that specify metric or BA threads can offer be converted to imperial and vice versa. The main thing is to invest in quality drills, even though the cost is substantially higher. Personally I have a set of # 1-60 drills, fractional from 1/16- 3/8ths by 1/64 increments, black oxide and jobber length and these work for 99% of what I do though I work in imperial measurements.

Bill

Offline matthew-s

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2017, 03:15:04 PM »
Matthew, looking at your profile info. I assume you are in the Boston area of the USA. it would help to know if you plan on doing metric or imperial work most of the time. Even plans it castings that specify metric or BA threads can offer be converted to imperial and vice versa. The main thing is to invest in quality drills, even though the cost is substantially higher. Personally I have a set of # 1-60 drills, fractional from 1/16- 3/8ths by 1/64 increments, black oxide and jobber length and these work for 99% of what I do though I work in imperial measurements.

Bill

Yes - I am in the States, near Boston. I plan on working in Imperial measurement (especially since I have the Atlas 618), and I suspect model engineering fasteners are more readily available in imperial sizes, but that is just an assumption.

I agree that it's better to buy the good tools to start, especially where the tool meets the work! 

* For machines of the size I have, will I quickly run out of room on "jobber" lengths, or should I be mostly ok?
* If I was to start with a set, should I go for a numbered or fractional set? Or am I kind of hosed and need to get both?

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2017, 03:37:51 PM »
Between the two...number and fractional, I find I use the numbered set 80% of the time. You could probably get just the fractional ones you need rather that a full set. You can find quality drill sets on sale at times through MSC, Travers, Penn tool, etc.  Just watch the sales flyers.

Bill

Offline Stuart

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2017, 03:39:43 PM »
Matthew

The Stuart drawing are in fractional imperial just your cup of tea

They call out the fixing drill sizes in metric but all other holes are in fractional imperial sizes

INMHO use metric for the fixings and fractional for the rest else you need to convert to a number drill

But do buy named brand they cutt better and drill on size

As to the comment about buying in packs of ten I fully endorse that statement it not if I break a drill or tap it’s when

Good luck and welcome to the Colective   :stir:

If you need a challenge try the size of drill I use often ( packs of 50 ) a number 80 and 12 ba and smaller  :lolb: :lolb:
My aim is for a accurate part with a good finish

Offline matthew-s

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2017, 03:52:44 PM »
What brands do folks like, and where do people fall on the 135* vs. 118* question for our purposes?

Online Kim

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2017, 03:58:29 PM »
* For machines of the size I have, will I quickly run out of room on "jobber" lengths, or should I be mostly ok?

Yes, with those smaller machines I believe you will be much happier with the Screw Machine length bits.  I have a Taig mill and there's not a lot of head room there and the screw machine bits are a life saver (and yet, I STILL have many situations where I still run out of head room! - guess I need a bigger mill! :)).

I found a good set of Precision Twist bits on sale for about half price and bought mine then.  But don't be fooled - half price is still not cheap!  But wow!  I can tell you that there is a world of difference between how well those bits cut and the cheap ones I had before. Don't waste your money on the cheap ones!

I have a set of numbered (1-60), and fractional (1/16"-1/2" by 64ths) and a set of lettered bits (A-Z).  I would say I use the numbered ones most, the fractional next, and the lettered bits least.  But over time, I think you'll want them all! :)

Kim

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2017, 04:10:21 PM »
You will need fractional size drills for clearance holes on bar stock but if you need to ream any holes than you may need to use a metric fractional for an imperial sized hole and vice/versa for a metric sized hole . quite confusing if you work to Thou's or whatever they call it in metric. !! as i am oldschool (old's cool) most of my stuff is imperial..........Metric = multiply....Imperial = divide ??!!! try trying to put 3 or 5 equidistant holes in a steam chest using metric !! sorry if this is sounding "technical" but that is engineering. When building this model you could get some "words and music" as LBSC used to say ,and he will tell you if you need to drill a hole 3/16 bare or full !!!  So what is bare and full in Metric / perhaps our friends  'sur la continant' could help us !.....this is why model engineering is so much fun .........

Offline Stuart

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2017, 04:40:52 PM »
Bare = 1/64 under full 1/64 over on size drill under and ream for small larger drill bore ream

Stick to the standard 118 point , but do as has been recommended for 6mm 1/4 inch up stone the cutting edge for brass


If head room is a problem then get stubby drills but the size range is not the same

But then you need to sharpen them

I get my coat
My aim is for a accurate part with a good finish

Offline kvom

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2017, 04:45:17 PM »
I would certainly get a full set of fractional bits, and then the number drills needed for the tap sizes you use.  I have a full set and only rarely have needed letter drills.

I got my index set as part of a tooling lot.  They are cobalt, and I've always replaced worn ones with cobalt as needed.

Online Kim

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2017, 05:48:59 PM »
Yes, I agree with kvom on the Cobalt.  It's stronger than straight HSS.

But I would have recommended 135 degree split point drills, thinking they are bether for metals.  What is the thinking on the 118,  Stuart?

Kim

Offline gerritv

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2017, 06:09:19 PM »
When I was using my Taig lathe I started buying screw machine drills as needed from KBC Tools. Their brand, decent quality at a decent price.
I have just recently ordered a set of metric drills, 1-5.9 in .1mm steps from Micro Screws in NL. Web site is in Dutch but he speaks/writes fluent English. His drills and hw are of excellent quality. Since you/we are outside of EU there is no BTW (21%) although his prices include that. He takes it off when you pay.

Lately I have been using the closest metric drill to inferial size as my metric drills are better quality. When tolerance isn't important I use what ever else I have in my indexes :-) The .1mm increment metric drills provide a very good range.

I typically "buy the best I can afford", sometimes this means making do for a while but replace with better quality later on.

Please fill in your location in Profile, it makes things easier when suggesting sources etc.

Gerrit

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Offline Stuart

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2017, 07:01:37 PM »
Kim
That’s what I use and have the drill sharpener set up to that angle ,it does the spilt point as well
Looks like I have been doing it wrong for 55 years  :o
My aim is for a accurate part with a good finish

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2017, 11:46:29 PM »
Hi re sharpening I always sharpen my drills with an offhand grinder and have done for 58 years !! and have always wondered if a machine can faithfully copy the actual movements that the hand can make ?? i think that by doing it with an experienced hand i am getting a 1000 faceted drill bit ?? I would welcome any comments about this........Thanks.........

Offline Bobsmodels

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2017, 01:03:06 AM »
Hi

I endorse the screw machine size.  I have a set of both and rarely use the jobber size.  Buy the best you can you will not regret it.  I have a microscope I use on the lathe and I have looked at some of the grinds under it.  The difference is remarkable as at the beginning I purchased the least expensive I could find.  Not only go for the best in drill bits, but also any tooling ie mill cutters, lathe tooling etc.  One real good one will give you great service.

Bob

BTW be careful as some brands have been bought out and are no longer US based, ie Precision Twist Drill (PTD), when selling these now they discount them about 50% to make you think you are getting a deal.  I have some of the ones from the new source and have had to regrind them.  Replacements will likely be Dormer from now on.

Online Kim

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2017, 01:22:49 AM »
Kim
That’s what I use and have the drill sharpener set up to that angle ,it does the spilt point as well
Looks like I have been doing it wrong for 55 years  :o
Certainly not an argument I was trying to make.  Didn't intend it to be an argument at all actually. :) I was just wondering at the reasoning since I have heard others say differently in books, magazines, and on this forum.  And asking is the only way I know to learn.
Sounds like your experience is that 118 vs 135 doesn't make much of a difference?
Thanks,
Kim
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 04:03:03 AM by Kim »

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2017, 02:25:16 AM »
what is also a good buy is a drill gauge that on one side has number drill sizes and the other the decimal inches size. It is quite surprising how different the increments are from one drill and the next !!.........

Offline Stuart

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2017, 06:41:32 AM »
Kim
No worries

I do not know why . But as I said that’s what I have always used so I stick with it , you know old dogs like their comfort zone .

By the way I use a vertex sharpener the type that uses a collet to hold the bit ,expensive yes,does the job yes down to 3 mm  my choice
My aim is for a accurate part with a good finish

Online Tin Falcon

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2017, 03:09:24 AM »
I have a couple of cheaper sets but I bought a set of these a couple years ago.

I have a total of three sets one good one two cheap ones plus hundreds of other good bits.

http://www.discount-tools.com/mic-drillset20.cfm

I always use a caliper to check size as it is ease to get the wrong bit in the wrong place in the index,

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2017, 03:56:57 AM »
Hi - I am a rank beginner, and have been very slowly building up a set of tools.  I think I'm finally at the point where I can start making things.
I don't have a set of drill bits though.  What should I start with?  I'd rather get a small set of good bits than a huge set of so-so bits.

I also will be making things on an Atlas 618, a Taig mill, and an 1/2" Atlas bench-top drill press.  Hopefully that gives you the sense of the size of models I will be building. I plan on starting with a Stuart S50 and then see where the hobby takes me from there.

For starters, I'm under the impression I should get HSS bits in screw machine length, but I'm less certain after that.  Get a "numbered" set? Fractional set? Metric?!?

Thanks!

I'm curious Matthew. Did you ever end up with a set of drill bits. Or more accurately..........your first set of drill bits.  ;)

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill
"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline matthew-s

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Re: Beginner - what drill bits to start?
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2017, 02:44:11 PM »
Wow. I just saw I never replied!  I have not. I determined I was getting a little ahead of myself, and had better get into a project and then build up tools as needed.

I happened to start my first project over the holidays. I now have a new question about threading does!!

 

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