Sherline or Taig...Full CNC.....which would you choose?

[steamer]

I've been told that I can buy one of these for work...full CNC with options..  Lathe and Mills

Very Small Prototype work...like in qty of 10's

What ever tooling I want

What say you guys?   

Dave

[crueby]

Buy one, use it to build the other?


This should be an interesting comparison.

[Ken K]

 I have a Taig CNC mill, which I bought, before Sherlinehad one, and a Sherline CNC lathe . I also have a Taig lathe, but  I think the Sherline, is a much better lathe, for CNC.
 My 2 cents!
Ken K

[Kim]

I believe the are fairly similar and would think that either would be good machines.

I have heard that the Taig mills are a little more rigid than the Sherline mills with a little larger work envelope.  The Taigs are a little less expensive.  Everything I've read make them out to be quite similar in accuracy.  Sherline has a broader range of tooling, and it is a little fancier in the 'looks' department, but is more expensive than the Taig tooling.

My direct experience; I own a Taig mill and am quite happy with it. But it is not CNC. I have no direct experience with the CNC other than I know they are available.  I also own several Sherline accessories (like the Mill Vice, and the Rotary Table).  Both are very nice and fit well on my Taig.

Kim

[paul gough]

If you have not already looked, then Luiz Ally, (Tryally tech), has extensive You Tube videos of the CNC Sherline lathe and mill usage and a number of mods, that are enlightening. About as good as you can get without hands on. Regards, Paul Gough.

[Hugh Currin]

Dave:

I've just put together an CNC Sherline Lathe plus a CNC milling column. I need the shop to be very compact, if I had space I'd opt for a lathe and a mill. I'm just coming to terms with the Sherline for both milling and lathe work. I think they will be useful for small work but it will take some time to learn their limitations and tooling. A change from larger equipment. I'm just starting to use them.

The Sherlines seem to be high quality and accurate. They don't use ball screws so for CNC there is some backlash, maybe 0.005", but this can be compensated for reasonably well. I suspect accuracy will be OK but not to that of a commercial machine. But at about 5% of the cost.

I essentially went with CNC ready Sherline equipment. They are for CNC but missing the stepper motors and computer/controller. I think the Sherline controller just controls four axes, no input for limit switches, spindle encoder, speed control, coolant control, etc. Instead of this I used a Gecko G540 controller. It also controls four axes but has terminals for other inputs (and outputs). I added a spindle encoder to allow lathe threading. I used LinuxCNC on a mini-ITX computer. It allows inputs for the above options and I found it easy to set-up. But this requires building up the controller box (power supply, wiring, find the box, etc). Also wiring up the steppers and getting LinuxCNC working. No problem for a hobby, but a consideration for work. I would build up a controller for the mill and a second for the lathe. Switching all the plugs to go from one to the other is cumbersome. Could get by with one computer though.

For work I don't know. Think carefully what you want the machines to do. Accuracy? Do you need lathe threading?

To your original questions, I haven't used a Taig so can't compare. Glad to address questions on the Sherlines or CNC if I can.

I'll be real interested in which way you go and how it comes out. Keep us updated.

Hugh

[steamer]

Dave:

I've just put together an CNC Sherline Lathe plus a CNC milling column. I need the shop to be very compact, if I had space I'd opt for a lathe and a mill. I'm just coming to terms with the Sherline for both milling and lathe work. I think they will be useful for small work but it will take some time to learn their limitations and tooling. A change from larger equipment. I'm just starting to use them.

The Sherlines seem to be high quality and accurate. They don't use ball screws so for CNC there is some backlash, maybe 0.005", but this can be compensated for reasonably well. I suspect accuracy will be OK but not to that of a commercial machine. But at about 5% of the cost.

I essentially went with CNC ready Sherline equipment. They are for CNC but missing the stepper motors and computer/controller. I think the Sherline controller just controls four axes, no input for limit switches, spindle encoder, speed control, coolant control, etc. Instead of this I used a Gecko G540 controller. It also controls four axes but has terminals for other inputs (and outputs). I added a spindle encoder to allow lathe threading. I used LinuxCNC on a mini-ITX computer. It allows inputs for the above options and I found it easy to set-up. But this requires building up the controller box (power supply, wiring, find the box, etc). Also wiring up the steppers and getting LinuxCNC working. No problem for a hobby, but a consideration for work. I would build up a controller for the mill and a second for the lathe. Switching all the plugs to go from one to the other is cumbersome. Could get by with one computer though.

For work I don't know. Think carefully what you want the machines to do. Accuracy? Do you need lathe threading?

To your original questions, I haven't used a Taig so can't compare. Glad to address questions on the Sherlines or CNC if I can.

I'll be real interested in which way you go and how it comes out. Keep us updated.

Hugh

0.001 accuracy is a good bench mark.   and No I don't need the lathe to thread.  Mostly I need a small lathe to drill and turn..if for no other reason than spindle speed...I'm talking sub 1 mm diameter parts.   Samantha Bell will do it...but you're pushing her due to spindle speed.

Thanks for the feed back everyone...I'll let this go another day...please feel free to give me some input.....I do like the fact that the Taig can be supplied with Ball Screws...which for CNC is a real plus.

[Vixen]

Hi Dave,

I do not have and never will have a Sherline of Teig machine. I have no experience of these machines, all I can offer is some guidance as to what is essential, desirable or just nice to have in any small CNC mill.

Both the Sherline and Teig are essentially manual mini mills with stepper motors added. Great to allow the hobbyist to taste the joys of CNC but they can never be serious CNC machines. Due to their origins they will likely suffer from lack of rigidity, insufficient reserve spindle power and insufficient stepper motor power. Also the single collet tool holder can be frustrating. If the Boss's budget allows, look for a small benchtop semi-industrial Mill rather than a hobby mill. They cost a lot more but; when it comes to machine tools, never ask "where can I buy cheepest..... instead ask "where can I buy adequate performance". And that's down to you to decide.

Hugh C has a Sherline CNC mill and CNC lathe and his traveling roadshow posts already point to low rigidity and spindle power when screw cutting on the lathe.

If you decide on either the Sherline or Teig, go for the ball screw option and the larger table. Both these features are essential in my book. They will work without but you are on the back foot and making compensations from the start.

Dont be confused by the claims for fast feed rates, that's sales talk and not usable in real life. For a small hobby mill, think to push a 1/4" cutter at about 6" per minute in aluminium. Why so conservative? Any more will test the mills rigidity and power. Consider a typical CNC milling task of cutting a square internal pocket. Down the straight, the cutter will be cutting on about 25%/ 30% of the circumference. When the cutter arrives at the corner, momentarily, the cutter engages over 60% of it's circumference. This will test the rigidity of the machine, and any shortage of reserve power in the spindle and stepper motors. On a light CNC mill you need to be very conservative and reduce your feeds and speeds well below what you would expect to use when you were turning the handwheels. otherwise you risk loosing steps and position, stalling  the cutter and breaking tools, most likely in the corners.

In summary those things I think as essential are 1) ballscrews  2) machine rigidity 3) adequate reserve spindle power 4) adequate reserve stepper power.

Those things I consider highly desirable are 1) larger table travel 2) quick change tooling 3) a cabinet to contain the chips.

Those things which are nice to have include !) ammeter to show spindle power 2) one-shot lubrication system.

I have not mentioned the software, this is rather fundamental to the operation of a CNC machine. For the control of the machine, there are really only two options; Mach 3 or LinuxCNC. Both are similar and you face a steep learning to get going. I use LinuxCNC, it works well for me. The other type of software you will need is a means of converting parts of a drawing (DXF) to toolpath commands (G-code).  you will need some understanding of G-code as well; so there is a lot to learn before you can cut metal.

By the way, I have two CNC laths (large and small) but find I use them mostly in manual mode. pressing feed buttons instead of turning the handwheels and manual drilling from the tailstock. The multi-pass thread cutting is the CNC fuction I use most. I consider the CNC mill to be much more useful than a CNC lathe, by a long way

Mike

[kvom]

I have a LMS lathe that was converted to CNC.  It has ball screws, and is considerably larger than either Taig or Sherline, and has a 2500 rpm spindle with threading.  I still don't expect it to hold .001" tolerances reliably.

[Dan Rowe]

Dave, there is a new Sherline cnc lathe that looks interesting and worth a look.
http://www.sherlineipd.com/chucker_lathe.htm

Dan

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Now if you can swing it with accounting and purchasing: This would do both.

http://mdaprecision.com/products/5-axis-cnc-systems/tn5-v5/

Just saying

Cletus

[steamer]

Now if you can swing it with accounting and purchasing: This would do both.

http://mdaprecision.com/products/5-axis-cnc-systems/tn5-v5/

Just saying

Cletus

Oh I'll have to look at that!

Dave

[Hugh Currin]

0.001 accuracy is a good bench mark..... Mostly I need a small lathe to drill and turn..if for no other reason than spindle speed...I'm talking sub 1 mm diameter parts.

Dave: I suspect you may be disappointed with hobby class machines for this. That accuracy is difficult with these tiny CNC machines. Parts under 0.050" diameter are tiny. I don't think these machines have the spindle speed. I'd certainly make it clear to the Administration it's a low cost experiment which may fail, may well have to buy a commercial machine to do what you want. But if time is critical just jump to a commercial machine.

My two cents.

Hugh

[Flyboy Jim]

Dave, Here's a link to some videos by Ken Toonz with him using a CNC Sherline lathe and mill: https://www.youtube.com/user/KenToonz/videos

He's using them to make clock parts.He eventually goes to a Tormac mill.

Jim

[kuhncw]

Taig offers a ball screw CNC lathe available with an ER16 spindle and more recently a 5C spindle option was released.  The lathe is based on a Taig mill, but laid on its back.  Interesting concept.

http://www.taigtools.com/taigturn2000.html

Chuck