linux conversion help

[Art K]

Hi,
I have a Tormach pcnc1100 mill that I bought in 2007. I have run into some problems with the Mach3 setup on it. Many of the problems have been occurring after the original VFD died and was replaced with the new one. I was lucky they still had people that knew how to troubleshoot Mach3. The worst thing is that it is tending to lose tool heights. The easiest thing to do would be to spring for the kit that replaces the computer that operates the machine. It comes loaded with Path Pilot their machine software. I was told by a tech guy at Tormach that my Dell Optiplex 320 can't be converted to run Path Pilot. I know nothing about converting a computer to Linux machine. Is there anyone out there that does? They have different kits that use a PCI or PCI-E slot.  I'd love to save the money replacing the computer would cost. Does anyone have any helpful advise?
Art

[Admiral_dk]

I'm pretty sure that you can get a running Linux on just about any kind of computer + enormous amounts of hardware most people don't think of as computers ..... and so far so good ..... but making sure that you can get all the Linux drivers you need might be another matter ....

Your old computer will most likely run Linux without any problems as it is a major brand and model - so I will be very surprised if the basic parts don't work fine with several different Linux distributions ....

I'm can't help you with details, since I haven't tried to use Linux for anything but Windows hard disk rescue operations.

If no one here can help - try the Linux CNC site.

[Thor]

Hi Art,

 Unfortunately I don't have any experience with Dell, but as long as your computer has enough memory it should be able to run Linux. Do you have Linux hardware drivers for the PCI cards?
 You could try and download something like Ubuntu (https://www.ubuntu.com/download) and make a bootable "live" CD/DVD or bootable USB memory stick and try it out without installing anything on the Dell.

Thor

[Vixen]

Hello Art

I have been using LinuxCNC for a few years and have also tried to install Pathpilot which, as you know, is LinuxCNC based.

I believe if your PC will run Mach3 then there is a very good chance it will also run LinuxCNC.

LinuxCNC is intended to be an all purpose CNC driver and can be configured (not without difficulty) to drive almost any type of CNC machine.

Pathpilot is LinuxCNC based but the software has been rewritten and dedicated to drive only Tormach machines. The first thing Pathpilot does, on start-up, is to check to see if there is a Mesa 5i25 interface board installed in the PC. If Pathpilot does not find the Mesa 5i25 on start-up, it immediately shuts down, end of game.

If you go to the LinuxCNC Forum you will find a section dedicated to running Pathpilot on non Tormach machines.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot 
This is quite legitimate, as LinixCNC and therefore Pathpilot come under the same open source software agreements.  Just do not expect any help of support from Tormach for foreign machines.

So Art, if your PC has a Mesa 5i25 interface card installed, there should be a good chance it will run Pathpilot. If there is no Mesa 5i25, you can buy and install one, and seek help from the LinuxCNC forum community to get it set up and working, because Tormach will be determined to get you to buy a new machine.

Alternatively you could chose to run LinuxCNC instead of Pathpilot on your ex Mach 3 machine. Again the LinuxCNC forum is a wealth of information to help you configure and run their software.

Hope this helps, come back if you need more.

Mike

[Art K]

Admiral_dk, Thor & Vixen,
Thanks for your help. To be honest I didn't even know where to turn except MEM to get help. I will check out those forums. I will look into a Mesa 5i25 interface board as well. Thanks for your help!
Art

[Hugh Currin]

Art:

You could run the whole system using LinuxCNC. It would work great and you could likely keep the computer you're now using. When you were done you would know the system very well and it would work the way you want. To learn the system very well would take a lot of effort with a steep learning curve. Taking up LinuxCNC can be a whole new hobby in itself. It would not be too hard to get it running, but niceties like spindle encoder, spindle on/off/reverse, limit switches, etc. may not be as trivial. But you could get the basic machine X/Y/Z going without a herculean effort. The folks on the LinuxCNC forum are very helpful and exceptionally tolerant.

Since you haven't used Linux nor LinuxCNC, the fastest, easiest way to get your Tormach going would be to buy a pre-configured computer from Tormach. I'd suggest you do this, then load LinuxCNC on your old computer. Even hook it up to the Tormach for learning. Look at the LinuxCNC Forum, it has a lot of info related to PathPilot and of course LinuxCNC. But you'd have your mill running reliably in short order. Just my two cents worth.

How do you like the Tormach? Is the 1100 large enough, I think it's a smaller than a knee mill. I know it depends on what you're making but have to ask.

Thanks.

Hugh

[Vixen]

Hello Art,

It is reasonably simple to download LinuxCNC. There is an evaluation mode which allows you to run LinuxCNC off the disc and will NOT overwrite your current Mach 3 or data files. At a later date you can decide to do the full installation, which cleans off your disc and replaces it with a shiney new installation of Linux CNC.

You can download the latest release of LinuxCNC by visiting         http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html        and carefully follow the tutorial to download and burn an ISO copy of LinuxCNC onto a CD disc. The ISO software will self start whenever you start your PC with the CD in place.

The simplest way to connect the LinuxCNC PC to your mill is by using the PC's 25 pin printer port, otherwise known as the Parallel Port. There is a very good wizard called 'Step Conf Wizard' to talk you through the configuration of the Parallel Port.  The stepper configuration details will be very similar to those you currently use for Mach 3.

With the Parallel Port you will be able to control the X,Y, Z and even an A axes also the limit/home switches. It will not be able control your VFD through the Parallel Port, you will need to do that by hand. At later date you could install a Mesa interface card to provide an additional analog interface to control of the VFD etc.

Hope this helps, come back if you need more.

Mike

[Hugh Currin]

Mike:

I suspect Art's computer is running a Mesa card. Isn't that what Tormach uses? That could make a LinuxCNC configuration harder, but I've not worked with Mesa cards. The installed Mach software should be a good guide. An inquiry on LinuxCNC forum should yield useful information. I suspect the Mesa card will allow an older slower computer to work well?

Hugh

The simplest way to connect the LinuxCNC PC to your mill is by using the PC's 25 pin printer port, otherwise known as the Parallel Port. There is a very good wizard called 'Step Conf Wizard' to talk you through the configuration of the Parallel Port.  The stepper configuration details will be very similar to those you currently use for Mach 3.

[Vixen]

Hugh and Art,

If the PC already as a Mesa 5i25 installed, that's good, because then Art could try to load LinuxCNC and use the simpler Parallell Port to get started while he figures out the more difficult Mesa interface configuration.

Art could also try and see if Pathpilot will run on his machine. A self installing Pathpilot ISO disc is available from Tormach for about $40. This is exactly the same software as used on all their new machines. You will find plenty of help and advice on the LinuxCNC/ Pathpilot forum I referred to in a previous post    https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot.

A lot depends on what Art wants to do. At the moment it sounds like he just wants to escape from Mach3 

Mike

[Art K]

Mike & Hugh,
Thanks for your help. It is comforting to know that I can try the Linux set up on a disc and not totally immobilize my mill in the mean time while I experiment around. At this time I like Hugh's suggestion of purchasing the Tormach cpu and setting up the old one as a backup. I am thinking at this time of purchasing Path Pilot and the 5i25 board. One question, is there any difference between the 5i25 and the 7i76. Is there any reason to use one or the other? I do have the 8" rotary table so I would want that to work. Hugh to answer your questions about my PCNC 1100, I like it, and consider it comparable to a Bridgeport style mill. The table size is comparable although you can't tilt the head or rotate it to get at another part of the table. But you can do a lot with the rotary table. Here is an example of what I've done with the rotary table.http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,3653.210.html
I did finally break down and use the "high speed spindle kit" basically a Proxxon dremil but it does allow me 20000 rpm.
Art

[Hugh Currin]

I didn't see that you can purchase, as a 1100 owner, a PathPilot disk. It's only $35, and $100 with a PCI card. I didn't see whether their card is a Mesa 5i25, or 7i76, or other. I'd get what they offer as it'll mesh better with PathPilot. At that price I'd be real tempted to try it. Maybe get another hard disk to switch out and try loading PathPilot. You could then restore Mach easily. Please keep us updated.

Nice to hear you're happy with your Tormach. It looks like a nice set-up, in between a conversion and an indistrial machine. The Val is a nice looking engine I'd like to give a try some day. Your build of it is beautiful.

Thanks.

Hugh

[Vixen]

Hello Art and Hugh

Just a word of caution about the PC speed required to run Pathpilot.

I have several dedicated 1.8Ghz Intel Atom D525MW powered PC's. I use these exclusively to run LinuxCNC on two 4 axes mills and my lathe. They run LinuxCNC faultlessly.

I have tried to run Pathpilot on the same PC after following the Pathpilot program hacks given in the LinuxCNC forum. These hacks get round the start-up search for a Mesa card etc.
The result is Pathpilot runs, after a fashion, but the graphic displays are slow and jerky. This could be an indication the Pathpilot needs a faster PC than LinuxCNC. On the other hand it could just be a problem with the software hack. I am still working at this problem.

What is the difference between Pathpilot and LinuxCNC? Pathpilot actually does no more and no less than LinuxCNC, after all the both use the same core program. The difference is only in the user interface and the screen layout. Pathpilot is supposed to be more in tune with a machinists needs and more straightforward to use. However, I have used LinuxCNC for several years on all my machines and have become totally accustomed to it's simpler screen layout, It works very well and is so reliable.


Mike