Skills gap

[zeeprogrammer]

Start by eliminating the ignorance that seems to result from a high-school education.

I might take umbrance at that statement. But I'm thinking it's not what you meant.
High school education doesn't result in ignorance.
Lack of GOOD high school education may.
Root cause isn't the high school...it's the lack of resources - pay, support, supplies, etc.

But it's the reason for lack of resources that must be understood to really get to root cause.
To Gas_mantle's point. My fear is that is exactly what's been happening. Whether out of ignorance (saving money) or intentional.

Let's be careful here. This can turn political very quickly and that's not the intent.
If I were to summarize...people agree that we need better education.
The reasons why we're here (in this thread)...probably belong in a different forum.

[Maryak]

As technology encroaches more and more into the workplace jobs are displaced.

We have witnessed its effect on those with little or no education and are now seeing its effect on the middle class.

Companies have and will continue to replace people with machines whenever and wherever possible. They will also shift production requiring labour to countries where labour costs are the lowest.

My gripe is that these same companies then want a tax cut, on top of their already substantial overhead reduction, to remain competitive.

If the companies are not taxed more to cover the deficit brought on by lowering the pool of taxpayers government goes into debt or it reduces goverment services. Most have chosen debt in order to be re-elected.

Work, as all of my parents and most of my own generation understood it, as a means of providing a reasonable lifestyle is becoming a thing of the past.

Skills gap there may be but the cracks now appearing will become much bigger gaps in the future.

Educators need to educate our kids to the best of their individual ability and in fields suited to that ability, not fool a large percentage of them into believing they are destined to be societies leaders.

Boy am I waxing lyrical here!

Maryak

[b.lindsey]

Writing and life skills aside, high schools these days are teaching students to pass the "tests" as that is what teacher pay and school reputation are based on in many cases. Tax dollars are spent on administrators moreso than teachers. Some of my best teachers in life were people with barely a high school education but lots of common sense learned through experience. We had a math work day today in the intro to engineering class with some problems that required actual analysis of the problem statement and some thinking, not just a list of variables and a formula to stick them into to find the answer. Two students in the process of working on this came up with 2x times x = 3x. Its discouraging and these are the best and brightest!! The sad part is that it is getting worse rather than better.

Bill

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Using a slang term from down here in the South: "y'all done good" on this one. A great discussion and all valid points. I want to state unequivocally, that I have nothing against any or all of the education that a person can obtain, wish I had more. I do have issues with the type or quality of education we're giving our youth. As stated in the video, in the quest for higher education, we've deserted a whole big segment that either just don't have the mental horsepower or the desire to obtain it. We've drowned our elementary students with technology and abandoned the simplest forms of education, like the r's, punctuality, civilty, courtesy, you remember that stuff. If a child masters these few hurdles, then in middle school introduce all the technology you need to find the path best suited for that student. Resources: I agree, teachers need more pay and Bill is correct, the big bucks go to the directors and such.(Do all first graders really need there own school supplied laptop?)  I don't mind paying for what I get, I just don't feel I'm getting my money's worth. Last statement and I'll hush. I employ 20 people and the services they provide, well, there just isn't an app for that and most of the people they serve, well, no software to replace them either. I think that was really the gist of the video, just saying 

Eric

[steamer]

Empathy and respect

Empathy for those less fortunate, and respect for the liberties that we have.

I see neither .....all the time.

If you have those, your perspective about society changes as well.   

Teach them young!

Dave

[jeff l]

What I have learned in shop class has been good to me .

[Flyboy Jim]

What a great thread this has been! Unfortunately......... it's kind of like "preaching to the choir". We all know this stuff, but what do we do about it? Example.......my two grandsons, that live close by, come over and what do they do.............watch sports on TV. Geez............I've got an airplane in the hanger in the backyard that we could go flying in and they don't even want to go out and look at it, much less go flying! In the same situation, I would of been begging my grandpa just to be able to go and sit in it!

OK here's a positive note. Our local EAA Chapter (Experimental Aircraft Association) has a program called "Teen Aviation". What do they do...........well they build airplanes, while working with mentors. I confess that I'm not as active in this as I could or should be, but this thread has got me thinking about this. To go a little further........we had one lady in this program that went on to a nearby Community College and got her A & P (Airframe & Power Plant) certificate and now has a great job with Columbia Helicopters. Based on this, my thinking is that this problem must be solve from the ground up,since the top down thinkers don't seem to want to do it.

I could go on, but I'll leave it as it is............for now!   

Jim

[philjoe5]

We all know this stuff, but what do we do about it?

Try helping out at a makerspace, scouts, etc. near you and introduce the public to machining.  You might be surprised at how popular it is.

Cheers,
Phil

[Flyboy Jim]

We all know this stuff, but what do we do about it?

Try helping out at a makerspace, scouts, etc. near you and introduce the public to machining.  You might be surprised at how popular it is.

Cheers,
Phil

Well said Phil. We've tried to get in to the local High School with this stuff, but the response seems to be: "That's fine, but what does this have to do with sports"?  But on a positive note, when we have our "Young Eagles" day, there is a High School nearby that shows up with students from their Aviation program. These kids have T-shirts advertising their program and really know what it's all about. I love taking these kids up flying!

Jim

[philjoe5]

Those kids are lucky to have you Jim.  What a great opportunity for them!  I wish I lived closer to Oregon 
Cheers,
Phil

[10KPete]

my thinking is that this problem must be solve from the ground up,since the top down thinkers don't seem to want to do it.

Jim

You've nailed it, Jim.  I has to start at home, early. I'm 69 years young and I'm afraid my generation is to blame for starting the issue. My Dad worked his ass off, and my Mom, because that was how they were raised. We need to get back to that ethic, soon.

Pete

[derekwarner]

Selective education in training schools is also an issue

Some years back......our Australian Standards Association  decreed  that Australia must follow the ISO Metric path for all engineering values

So young Apprentices [later called Technicians in Training] were taught to measure and read a vernier caliper

Yes a true device without a TV box at the end........the only problem was their training only covered the scale on the lower face of the caliper.......being the Metric scale in units to 0.05 mm

Students were examined on their ability measure, read and record such dimensions

However  ......the scale on the top face of the caliper ...being the Imperial scale in units of I/1000 IN.....was not a part of the Education syllabus

Given one of these recently graduated [Naval Mechanical Technician] a replacement component shaft of AS1444 Grade 4140, 1 1/4" diameter pre-chromed precision bar for an American built RAN warship guided missile launcher and chances were that this dimension would be recorded as 31.7 diameter  so what happened to the missing 0.05 mm?

My role in this case was to enlighten by explanation and example for the Naval Mechanical Technician, that other measurement systems were a part of the real world and must be observed accurately 

Derek

[Flyboy Jim]

Selective education in training schools is also an issue

Some years back......our Australian Standards Association  decreed  that Australia must follow the ISO Metric path for all engineering values

So young Apprentices [later called Technicians in Training] were taught to measure and read a vernier caliper

Yes a true device without a TV box at the end........the only problem was their training only covered the scale on the lower face of the caliper.......being the Metric scale in units to 0.05 mm

Students were examined on their ability measure, read and record such dimensions

However  ......the scale on the top face of the caliper ...being the Imperial scale in units of I/1000 IN.....was not a part of the Education syllabus

Given one of these recently graduated [Mechanical Naval Technician] a replacement component shaft of AS1444 Grade 4140, 1 1/4" diameter pre-chromed precision bar for an American built RAN warship guided missile launcher and chances were that this dimension would be recorded as 31.7 diameter  so what happened to the missing 0.05 mm?

My role in this case was to enlighten by explanation and example for the Mechanical Naval Technician, that other measurement systems were a part of the real world and must be observed accurately 

Derek

That's really interesting Derek. We could of (in the USA) of solved this problem (for us anyway) clear back in the sixties, but unfortunately ...........didn't! Probably never will. 

Jim

[AOG]

Derek your lucky. I started off as an aircraft mechanic and then got my engineering degree and moved upstairs. In my current role I get to keep an eye on the interns and the entry level engineers in our group. When I get a new one, the first thing I have them do is measure some things to see how well they understand the concepts of tolerance and manufacturability. What I've found is that 80% of our interns and new engineers have made it through 3-4 years of engineering classes and they have never seen a dial indicator much less a mic. The majority of the engineering schools seem to have devorced the theoretical from the execution. I can't tell you how many time I've had to look at a design and go "that is a great looking assembly, now where are you going to get an elf to get in there to buck those rivets?" Between that and the ever popular " is there some reason your calling out that dimension to four decimal places?"  The good news with these kids is that if I frame these issues as you are personally screwing over the guy that has to make these parts as opposed to that is bad design practice the lesson seams to stick.

Tony

[10KPete]

Tony, that sounds about right. I spent the last 15 years of my engineering career doing the same thing. The schools just don't teach applied engineering, only engineering science. The poor kids have never built or fixed or done anything except study the books. Now that's a good thing but they didn't know which end of a screwdriver to point at a screw. More than half of them anyway.

So I was quite happy to show 'em the ropes but quite sad the schools had failed them.

In one of the engineering mags I read that, in this country anyway, over half of the new mechanical engineers quit within 4 years to do something else. They were misled in on way or another in school and not guided very well.

Pete