Author Topic: Zee's Shop Beginnings  (Read 34535 times)

Offline MHJ

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #690 on: October 02, 2017, 11:41:35 AM »
Fully agree with the last 2 posts. One other thing: DO NOT let the locals know that you have a machine shop, lest you be pestered with:
"can yajust"
"will yajust"
"have yagot" etc, etc.

A sign on the workshop door may help, something on the lines of:
P**s Off

Which is the most polite I can think of at the moment. Enjoy yourself in there Z.
H.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 12:04:05 PM by MHJ »

Offline Jo

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #691 on: October 02, 2017, 12:16:37 PM »
Actually I have quiet a trade in doing little jobs for people  ::)

Like last weekend I machined up for Olie a mount for his rifle and he dropped and chopped three trees for me  8)

Jo
Usus est optimum magister

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #692 on: October 02, 2017, 11:37:14 PM »
Thanks all.

Actually I have quiet a trade in doing little jobs for people  ::)
Like last weekend I machined up for Olie a mount for his rifle and he dropped and chopped three trees for me  8)

The art of negotiation. I'll rub your back if you rub mine.
So I don't have a problem with people knowing I have shop. They just have to offer something in return.

Fits with my own philosophy. I can never feel obliged to someone. I must return the favor or whatever.

On another note...

Daughter was in Vegas at trade show. She's okay. Spent some time in a restroom hiding.
She was at a bar when news came in and then a jack-hammer went off outside that sent everyone stampeding.
She was in the middle of the strip and not near the site.

My sympathies to all those affected.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you', whistles, and certain dinner bells.
"Found a peanut."
To work. To work. Zee-The Thread Trasher.

Online b.lindsey

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #693 on: October 02, 2017, 11:56:04 PM »
Such a tragic event, I hope you were able to hear from her quickly...a parents worst nightmare when you hear of something like that.

Bill

Offline Art K

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #694 on: October 03, 2017, 03:14:20 AM »
Zee,
Glad to hear that your daughter is fine. Some of my in-laws live in Vegas, they are all fine though one was in a location that was in lock down.
Art

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #695 on: October 03, 2017, 10:19:00 PM »
Thanks.

Waking up in the middle of the night to a phone call with my daughter saying good-bye is a nightmare.

She comes home today.

Many people grieving.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you', whistles, and certain dinner bells.
"Found a peanut."
To work. To work. Zee-The Thread Trasher.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #696 on: October 14, 2017, 06:36:06 PM »
Can you believe it? I actually had time to play with the mill.
First thing is/was to take some measurements and see how in tram it is.

I used the Rollie Dad method. Many of you know this but I'd thought I'd show my take on it for anyone who doesn't.
And  ;D it's a way to get someone to reply and double-check me.

The approach is to 1st measure how true the head is to the column and make adjustments as needed.
Then to measure how true the column is to the table and make adjustments as needed.

Tools include a round straight rod, measuring device, and some means to attach the measuring device.
I used a 1/2" diameter roller out of a printer.
I could not use my dial test indicator as it doesn't provide sufficient range before the tip bottoms or tops out.
I used a dial indicator (.001) and did my best eye-balling I could.
The dial indicator has to be mounted from the column.
Mounting from the table gives erroneous results if the column is not true to the table.

The left diagram shows the ideal case (measuring in Y). The column is the large rectangle, the head the smaller rectangle, with the rod sticking down from it.
Just to the right shows the indicator when it's at the top or bottom position.
Take a measurement near the head. If there's any swing then move the 0 marker such that the needle swings the same distance either side.
Run the head up, and take another measurement, without changing the indicator setting.
In the ideal case, the indicator would not move or at least move the same amount either side of 0.
If the rod is truly round and straight, any movement would indicate the rod or collet is not perfectly central to the spindle.

The right diagram shows the effect if the rod (again, it must be straight) happens to be installed crookedly (or the collet is not true to the spindle).
Again, the top reading is made and the indicator adjusted such that any swing of the needle is the same to either side of 0.
The second reading will swing (because the rod is out of kilter) but in the ideal case would swing the same to either side of 0.

The 2nd attachment shows the head tilted and not true to the column. Repeating the measurements would show the 2nd reading (at the bottom of the rod) to swing a different distance to either side of 0. For example, if the needle swings left by 7 (that is, -7) but only right by 3 (that is, +3) then you add the two then divide by two to get the amount the head is out by. In this case -7+3 = -4, -4/2 = -2. The sign shows in what direction the head is tilted. (But which direction I haven't looked into yet.)

The 3rd attachment shows the effect against the table (assuming the table is true to the column).
The angle at the top is the same as the angle you see below the table (the arcs).
The purpose was to see how much the error in the Y head tilt would add to the tilt of the table to the column.

To find the angle at the top...
y = h*sin(angle)
sin(angle) = y / h (we will need this)
angle = arcsin(y/h) (we won't need this)
y, in my example is -2 (or just 2).
I made my measurements 4.75-ish apart.
The angle is so small (and the -ish in 4.75 so large) I can use this for h.
sin(angle) = 2/4.75

Assuming a 24" table, and therefore 12" from center to end, the distance at the far end from flat is again y = h * sin(angle).
h is 12" and the angle is as above.
y = 12 * sin(angle)
y = 12 * 2/4.75

Anyway...
Here's what I got on my machine...

In the Y direction, I got a swing of -.0025 to .0019 (ish) giving a tilt of (.0019 - .0025) / 2 = -.0003.
Additional measurements still came below .0006.
I don't think I'll touch that.

In the X direction, I got a swing of -.003 to .0015 (ish) giving a tilt of (.0015 - .003) / 2 = -.00075.
A bit worse but there's not a lot of travel in X. I don't think I'll touch that.

Then I inserted a short rod in the spindle, attached a long rod to it at an angle, and a dial test indicator to the end.
I lowered the indicator on one corner of the table until it just touched.
I set the fine feed control on the quill?spindle? to 0, lifted off, moved the indicator to the other corner on the same end.
I moved the indicator down (I already knew I was at the highest corner) until the indicator changed. The fine feed then told me how much lower that corner is.
Just under .001. That may be okay. Basically .00017 per inch of travel in X.
Then I swung the indicator to the other end of the table.
.026.
That's probably not good. That's better than .001 per inch along the table.

Going back to the discussion of the table and the tilt of .0003...
The contribution to the distance one end of the table changes from center is
y = 12 * (.0003 / 4.75) = .00076. Not a lot. Less than .000063 per inch.

The column is not true to the table in Y.

The only recourse is to shim the column.

But before I do that...I will repeat the measurements several times.

Sorry for the length of this post. I hope it helps someone.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you', whistles, and certain dinner bells.
"Found a peanut."
To work. To work. Zee-The Thread Trasher.

Online crueby

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #697 on: October 14, 2017, 07:47:40 PM »
Getting the machines trued up, you'll be making Stanley Steamer parts in no time!!

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #698 on: October 14, 2017, 11:36:10 PM »
Getting the machines trued up, you'll be making Stanley Steamer parts in no time!!

 :cussing:
I'm thinking you're already working on it. Right?

Before someone jumps in and reminds me about using the dial indicator to measure the rod (you all know who I'm talking about  ;D )...
I had changed the tip from a ball to a flat.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you', whistles, and certain dinner bells.
"Found a peanut."
To work. To work. Zee-The Thread Trasher.

Online crueby

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #699 on: October 15, 2017, 12:00:05 AM »
Getting the machines trued up, you'll be making Stanley Steamer parts in no time!!

 :cussing:
I'm thinking you're already working on it. Right?

Yup - already working on the steam shovel. I figure you can drive me out to it in the Stanley.   :Lol:
The Stanley is still on my build list, I have liked them since I was a kid, thought a steam powered car was the neatest thing. Its just that the steam shovel has jumped it in line (rolled right over that little car!).
 :cheers:

Online b.lindsey

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #700 on: October 15, 2017, 12:42:10 AM »
Good to see you getting some shop time Zee. Should be making some swarf soon!!

Bilk

Offline Mike R

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #701 on: October 15, 2017, 02:41:41 AM »
Zee,


Be aware when it comes to the base/table that it is not necessarily planar and can have a twist in it.  Mine did and this threw me off for the longest time as I was using a cylindrical square on the table and measuring from the head to it, but as I moved the cylinder around the table/ table front to back or left to right I was effectively putting it at a new angle to the head and getting completely different results.


This is where "leveling" the machine comes in.  The machine doesn't need to be level so much as have the table be square to the column at the front of the travel and at the back.  Using a machinist level is one way to measure and adjust the base for any twist.  Adjustment can be as easy as tightening down one corner more than another to the stand, or shimming under the corners to remove twist.


Good luck.


Mike

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #702 on: October 15, 2017, 03:20:38 AM »
@Chris...excuses excuses. You know you should be doing the Stanley. You said it yourself...been thinking about it since you were a kid.  ;D

@Bill..re: making swarf soon...in the scheme of life...soon could be tomorrow or next year. But yes...soon.

@Mike...Thanks! That's what I'm working on. Getting the table level to the column. I don't care if the whole thing is 45 degrees to earth. I just want the head, column, and table square to each other.

Talked to mom tonight. She wonders why I want to retire. I'm turning 65 next year mom. I want to enjoy my time with myself, my wife, and my family.
Not in that order.
Besides, the company that bought us out sucks.

She also wants me to change hobbies. She thinks that breathing in metal dust will do me in.
I'm thinking she just thinks it's dangerous.
Probably remembers her father (Opi) who discovered a bit of his finger on the shop floor at the end of the day and hadn't realized he'd cut it off earlier.

That's one of the dangers of smoking. You lose some feeling in your fingers. And toes. And mind.

I'd  :lolb: but it's really not a  :lolb: matter.

Always a balance. I can't see trading a good, fun life for an extra year or so....when those last years just amount to waiting.

Apologies if this is a downer. Just saying.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you', whistles, and certain dinner bells.
"Found a peanut."
To work. To work. Zee-The Thread Trasher.

Offline Pete49

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #703 on: October 15, 2017, 04:05:34 AM »
retiring willbest move you'll make zee. No one to ask for time off to visit friends or family. I just hook up the teardrop and go ...takes how long to get there and back....who cares its only time.
Pete
I used to have a friend.....but the rope broke and he ran away :(