Author Topic: Zee's Shop Beginnings  (Read 73232 times)

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #165 on: February 18, 2017, 02:31:32 PM »
Jim...T thinks I want a desk there and a number of people think I should...but no. The desk is at the other end of the room for a number of reasons.
1) Sunlight can be too bright and depending on angle of light make things look odd. I could use blinds but that's somewhat of a pain.
2) Having the desk at the far end is near the entry. I expect to spend the majority of my time at the desk so it's handy for people (and the hot water water butler is near!).
3) I have the milling machine to the right of the windows and swarf is an issue. I want the mill far from the entry and that's the only place. Originally it was on the other side of the room but this way I can see the entry in the corner of my eye and not get startled when someone enters.

Having said that...I may have an assembly bench there.

And regarding roll around bench...I hope to have several things I can roll around. You might recall Marv's roll-around light and small platform. Things like that.

Dave...yes...that kind of stuff. I'm going to wait until I get some of the stuff in the workshop and see what I have left. The ceiling is tall and I might be able to make use of that...having platforms etc. that I can hoist up and down (so long as not too heavy - the ceiling joints weren't designed for weight).

A couple of pics...

In the shop. To the right of the windows will be the mill.



In the family room looking at the sun porch.



Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
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Offline gerritv

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #166 on: February 18, 2017, 03:03:22 PM »
Good call on the desk location. It is generally speaking bad for your eyes to have windows behind your desk. You would be constantly straining to adapt to the light from window o focus on your monitor.

The desk in my office can only be under a window, and so I have the blinds closed during the day. The one benefit is that I don't see the nearby Stop Sign runners zipping through :-)

Gerrit
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Online Dave Otto

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #167 on: February 18, 2017, 03:36:58 PM »
Hi Zee

Grizzly has this shop planner tool, http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner
It might be fun to play with.

The remodel appears to be moving along nicely.


Dave

Offline Don1966

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #168 on: February 18, 2017, 04:12:38 PM »
Looking good Zee but I don't see a sink. A wash sink is a great addition to your shop. You will need to clean stuff and wash hands. A paint tent is also a good thing to have with ventilation to the outside. Do you plan to add a bead blaster? You will enjoy the shop when complete and it will be you escape hole. Keep the piccys coming buddy.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #169 on: February 18, 2017, 04:33:45 PM »
Thanks Gerrit.

Dave...I played with that planner. Fun. The only thing is you're somewhat limited in choices. Cubify takes longer but I'm able to draw pretty close to what I intend to use.

Don...just outside the entry is going to be our kitchen sink from the old kitchen. It includes a hot water butler  :ThumbsUp: To the right of the sink is a built-in roll-out trash can that was also a part of the kitchen. They're going to re-use the counter top from the kitchen too.

Yes I have a bead blaster. Not sure if I'll have room in the shop. Since it's not an everyday-use tool, I may put it in the garage on the other side of the shop wall.
Paint booth, if ever, would probably be the same.

The intent is that the stuff I'll use "a lot" will be in the shop. Other stuff will be in the garage but is easily accessible.

I remembered yesterday that I need a photo studio. That may be something that can be pulled down from the ceiling or folded up. So long as it's easy to get to and use.

Nesting is such fun.  ;D

Thanks for looking in.

All suggestions welcome.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Online Dave Otto

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #170 on: February 18, 2017, 04:34:46 PM »
Ditto on the sink; I have a laundry tub in my shop and would be lost with out it. With the water supply and drain located right there in the wall now would be the time to at least have them roughed in.

Dave

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #171 on: February 18, 2017, 05:37:19 PM »
I'd showed this before but here's the plumbing for the old kitchen sink. Entry to the workshop is just to the right.
Behind the plumbing is the garage.
You can tell there's an extra 4' of length to the garage. I'll be able to use that  ;D

Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
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Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #172 on: February 18, 2017, 06:37:22 PM »
Narrowing down the lathe and mill choices...what to get?

For the lathe it's between the PM1030V and Grizzly G0752.
If one can believe the listed specs...here's the differences I have some questions about.
2nd column is PM, 3rd is Grizzly

Spindle mounting system            direct mount           1 3/4, 8 TPI         ?
Speed                                          50-2000                  100-2000            PM wins
Cross travel slide                          5                             6 1/2                   How important?
Tail Stock Quill Taper                    MT2                         MT3                    ?
Cross Power Feed                         included                  no                       PM wins
4-Jaw included                             5"                            6 1/2"                 ?
Price                                            1999                        1795                   PM wins with power feed

I'm thinking the PM wins but I am concerned about the spindle mounting system. I take it that 'direct mount' means you bolt it on?
What the advantages/disadvantages of either.
I'm wondering too about the 4-jaw but the PM one can be replaced right?

For the mill it is between the PM25MV and Grizzly G0759.
Looking at the pictures they appear identical.

Cross Travel                                  7                            5 1/2                   Why such a difference?
Longitudinal Travel                        19                          17 7/8                 Again a difference, but not much
Quill DRO                                      yes                        yes
DRO                                             option 699             included               Grizzly wins.
X Axis Power Feed option             299                       320
Price                                             1599                     1850                     Grizzly wins with DRO

So I'm leaning towards the PM again. More cost if I want to add the DRO but it seems good to get both machines from same vendor.

I didn't include features that were essentially identical.

What are your thoughts? Thanks for the help.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Online Jo

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #173 on: February 18, 2017, 06:55:39 PM »
Is there a gear box on the lathe. :headscratch: Throw..... Hole up the spindle.... Faceplate. Collets...

Mill: Table size, Z axis movement..... DRO is a must but can be put on later.

For those prices a good industrial machine should be an option. If you know someone who knows about machine tools..  ;)

Jo
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Online Kim

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #174 on: February 18, 2017, 07:01:05 PM »
Tough choices Zee...

You don't say what the threading capabilities are for the two lathes, but I assume they must be comparable, since you didn't list it?

I'm betting the quality will be very similar which ever way you go.  So if you're comfortable with availability, parts, & service, I'd go with the one that you feel gives you the better deal.  If you like the PM machines, I'd do that.  As I mentioned earlier, I ALMOST went with them when I purchased my new lathe 3 years ago and I heard a lot of positive about the PM machines.  Of course, in the end, I went with Grizzly, but that was MY choice, not yours, and the decision was made on very subjective criteria.  As I said, I don't think there's going to be much difference between the two brands overall quality wise.

Go for it Zee!  I can't wait to see what you end up with!
Kim

Offline mklotz

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #175 on: February 18, 2017, 07:07:51 PM »
Some threading operations are more conveniently done with the lathe running in reverse.  This means there is some chance that a screw-on chuck might unscrew.  Direct mount prevents that.  Not a biggy but you asked.

A quick change gear box is, IMO, essential.  You will cut threads at some point; it's not as difficult as it appears prior to doing it.

On the mill, consider X power feed an absolute essential.
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Offline gerritv

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #176 on: February 18, 2017, 07:14:27 PM »
Jo, both lathes have 1" spindle bore.
The gear trains for threading will be the same I think.
The G0602/0752 have clamps on the chuck/spindle mount to lock it in place for reverse turning.
The biggest difference between the two IMO:
1. If the PM is DI-4 cam lock then that wins. Screwing heavy lumps of metal while holding it up and not crushing your fingers by accident is something to avoid :-)
2- The PM has T-Slot cross slide. This provides a wider base for the compound. That is an area that ppl complain about on the G0602/752's. This comes into play when cutting off anything substantial. The t slot lets you mount a tool post on the rear as well as other goodies.

Gerrit
(Owner of a 2003 model King KC1022ML, aka G0602)

Now wondering if the PM1030 t slot cross slide will fit on the G0602/752/KC1022. mmmmnn, something to dream about.
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Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #177 on: February 18, 2017, 07:43:02 PM »
There is thread capability. I didn't do a compare as I don't have the experience to know what to look for.
I may have missed it, but I didn't see any references to the gear box.
But these are pretty popular machines so I'm thinking any differences in threading capability won't matter to me.

Gerrit put his finger on it regarding the spindle mount.
I don't know anything about camlocks, how they work, what the machine needs or the chuck needs.
Quick searching hasn't helped yet as, again, I don't have the knowledge.

I hadn't noticed the T-slot cross slide. That's seems a big win for the PM.

Go for it Zee!  I can't wait to see what you end up with!

I am! I am! It's which it will be it is the problem.  ;D
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline gerritv

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #178 on: February 18, 2017, 08:50:26 PM »
I forgot to mention, ask for the manual for the PM1030. The G0752 is available on the Grizzly site.

I think the threading gear/gear box (the dials with I, II, III and A,B,C) look the same as Grizzly, if so then this Windows app will be of use: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/151573-g0602-threading-guide-windows-app.html. I didn't create it but have  plans to make it available on Android but don't hold your breath :-) The Projects in MEtal link I posted earlier also has a downloadable Excel spreadsheet which helps choose the gear train with broadest range of pitches.

The biggest pain you will have with both lathes is switching from threading back to carriage feed mode but after a while that is not too big a deal either. Unless you are doing a lot of different thread pitches it isn't too bad.

In the end it is about getting value for dollar with a price you can afford. Generally I live by the rule 'buy the best you can afford', usually avoids regrets and buying again! At least you don't have to factor in the horrible CAD<->USD exchange rate.

Gerrit
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Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee's Shop Beginnings
« Reply #179 on: February 18, 2017, 09:23:28 PM »
Thanks Gerrit.

I've only done threading twice on my mini-lathe. Once to make a small hammer and once to make a machinist's clamp.
I don't think I'll be doing much threading. For most things I want to do it seems off-the-shelf bolts/screws are available.

But every time this topic comes up, a lot of people chime in on how important thread capability is. I'd like to understand this more.

Certainly, it's a great thing for the odd repair or helping hand to a neighbor...but that seems more convenience than necessity.

So let's hear from some people...what are you specifically doing that calls for your being able to thread?
What am I missing? Because from my standpoint...I don't get the importance for the things I intend to do.

Oh...and we're talking both external and internal threading right? I'll be interested in thoughts on internal threading too.

Thanks
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.