Author Topic: Q. re: condensing engines  (Read 2412 times)

Offline Marty Feldman

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Q. re: condensing engines
« on: January 02, 2017, 02:55:09 AM »
For purposes of modelling early (early 19thC and before) condensing engines, I would like to do some reading and see some nuts&bolts pictures and diagrams of the arrangments that were used for producing the sprays of cold condensing water.  I'd appreciate suggestions as to where to go to find such material.  There are descriptions around, but what I am after are the specific hardware/machinery/plumbing arrangements.  Many thanks.

-Marty-

Offline Ramon

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2017, 01:24:44 PM »
Hi Marty - you could try getting hold of a copy of 'Elements of Steam Engineering' by Spangler - this has a fair section on condensers in it but whether that's exactly what you are looking for with regard to the actual spray patterns I'm not sure.

I got mine from Camden Miniatures several years back but I think a copy will easily be found on Ebay.

Regards - Ramon
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Offline steamer

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2017, 01:36:35 PM »
You could also try "The Thermodynamics of the Steam Engine" by Peabody.

Also ,  Do a search under "Atmospheric Engine" as that is the type of engine which you seek.

What did the work was barometric pressure during the condensing phase.    The condensation was initiated by a spray of fine water mist in the cylinder which condensed the steam and created a vacuum.

That vacuum resulted in Atmospheric pressure pushing the cylinder down.   These engines were first used in the mines of England and Scotland to pump water.

Dave
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Offline steamer

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2017, 01:47:12 PM »
Case in point.....

Look up Newcomen Engine patent to lift water with fire......and perhaps some of the history around that.

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline IanR

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2017, 05:42:06 PM »
Henry Davey, of Hathorn,Davey, had a 3 part article in The  Engineer from 23 October 1903. Downloadable from Grace's Guide, and better than anything else I've found.

Offline Marty Feldman

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2017, 04:20:58 AM »
Thanks to all for the helpful leads.  I will try to get to all of them.

IanR:  I have just read the excellent, and clearly informative, Davey piece from 1903 you  recommended.  A much appreciated reference.   As always with 'The Engineer' I had to keep the blinders in place in order to focus on the article and only that article.  Just as with Grace's Guide today, 'The Engineer' must have been the YouTube, or Google, of its day, with one interesting article flowing into another, and so on until the domestic cry, "Supper's on the table and getting cold!", means that one must finally break the suction.

-Marty-

Offline Marty Feldman

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2017, 04:30:25 AM »
Incidently, what is the secret to having one's location (Owl's Head, Maine, USA in my case) included under one's "Posted By " Name when posting?  I could not spot the appropriate command for this under 'Profile'.

-Marty-

Offline John Hill

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2017, 06:49:16 AM »
The original systems used several feet of head for pressure to get a good spray but for a model you might need to make a pump?

« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 06:52:44 AM by John Hill »

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2017, 04:35:25 PM »
To add your location go to your forum profile page and add it to personal text.

The best set of drawings and description I have seen of a Newcomen Engine is in "The Coal Viewer and Engine Builders Practical Companion" by John Curr 1797. I have a copy of the second edition 1970 which is also fairly scarce but worth looking for.

Dan

Edit: I just googled the title and a paperback version was printed in 2010 and is available at Amazon for $20, well worth the price.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 04:43:57 PM by Dan Rowe »
ShaylocoDan

Offline Marty Feldman

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2017, 05:04:55 PM »
The original systems used several feet of head for pressure to get a good spray but for a model you might need to make a pump?



Excellent, and readable, diagram - just the sort of thing I was after.  Thanks.
-Marty-

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2017, 03:04:10 PM »
I have a book that talks about jet condensers saying that the spray jet was quite high up the condenser tube, and the bottom of the tube was at a slight angle down to the air pump to scavenge all the condensate out into the air pump. some of these names may be a bit confusing !! i.e.   Condenser=bit of vertical pipe.   air pump = mostly water and some air pump . when i find the descriptions i shall photo it and post it later. I am making an early jet condensing copy of the Beeleigh mill engine that has this system so have lots of photos of the engine in its present derelict state that is being restored. Here are some photos of the Beeleigh mill engine in Maldon Essex. the condenser (bit of pipe) has an expansion stuffing box arrangement incorperated into it.If you need more i on this engine ia am describing the build on their forum and it will incorperate the jet condenser and air pump parts.
good luck with your research
Willy

Offline Marty Feldman

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2017, 05:09:13 PM »
To add your location go to your forum profile page and add it to personal text....

Thanks for that, Dan, and for the reference to Curr 1797.
-Marty-


Offline Marty Feldman

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2017, 04:13:29 PM »
Willy  -  I'm looking forward to the condenser info if you come across it.  You also mentioned describing your work on the Beeleigh engine model.  Where exactly do I go to access your account of that?

-Marty-

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2017, 04:31:24 PM »
Hi, The link is ...The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon Essex.......this should take you there, Also i have just had this engine in steam that is on my posts.
Willy

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Q. re: condensing engines
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2017, 04:04:03 AM »
Here are some pics of the jet condenser levers and also a link to the Dogdike engine that shows the operation of the lever. I have not found the info yet about the condensers