Author Topic: Another Kerzel  (Read 6268 times)

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Another Kerzel
« on: December 16, 2016, 05:42:44 PM »
Well, I've finally started cutting metal for my Kerzel that I started planning 6 years ago!

I got most of the way through 3D modeling and converting to metric, but then life got in the way; a new job (been there 5 years now and have somehow survived two rounds of redundancies :shrug:) and as of three years ago, a new family :o

Now that the young'n can actually entertain himself for a while and doesn't need constant attention, and also because I'm tired of armchair modeling, I've been trying every day to get some time in the workshop no matter how short.

So, here is my attempt at a build log. As far as taking photo's goes, well it's something I'm going to have to get used to. I have a few here, but will try for more as I go along.

The last couple of weeks have got me this far, the base and body are done, save for a few small details that still need to be converted to metric (cam slide bearing and push rod bearing)
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2016, 05:48:48 PM »
The chunk of Ali I used for the body was 50mm wide, but the body is only 38mm wide so some time on the bandsaw left me with this offcut that was just the right size for the bearing blocks.
Here I've penciled in rough outline to check that the notch isn't a problem, and the blocks after squaring up and selecting the best faces.
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2016, 06:17:33 PM »
I keep getting "500 Internal Server Error" when posting, and "Session timeout" over and over and over... :shrug:
Got more to post but too frustrated to continue right now.
Maybe tomorrow.
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

Offline crueby

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2016, 06:36:42 PM »
I get the internal error a lot if I make the images too large, have found that sizing them to a max width or height of 700 or 800 pixels works better with the forum software. With the Session Timeout, just hitting the Post button again and it will usually go through - fortunately it keeps the post contents intact on that one. I have gotten in the habit of copying the text before hitting post, just in case. Hopefully they will get the software fixed soon, they are working on it.

And yes, got the timeout on that post...

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2016, 09:58:22 PM »
Sorry about the frustration level, but that is a nice start on the Kerzel. Will look forward to the remaining pictures.

Bill
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 10:08:25 PM by b.lindsey »

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2016, 02:54:36 AM »
I get the internal error a lot if I make the images too large...

Thanks crueby, all the images are the same size (pixels) but perhaps it is the filesize (bytes) that is the issue even though I'm not anywhere near the forum limit(10 meg for 8 files, generous!).
I'll try resizing anyway.
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2016, 02:57:35 AM »
Sorry about the frustration level, but that is a nice start on the Kerzel. Will look forward to the remaining pictures.

Bill

Cheers Bill, it was late when posting and I was tired, so patience was pre-thinned.
A new day and a couple of morning espresso's and I'm ready for anything...
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2016, 03:00:01 AM »
The efforts from yesterday and the day before... two holes.
One hole per day.
Better than nothing I guess  ::)
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

Offline kvom

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2016, 03:25:39 PM »
The writer Marcel Proust was famous for reporting that one day he inserted a comma, and the next day removed it.  He still managed to write some very long books.  If you had drilled one hole and then plugged it the next day you'd be in a similar situation.  As is is you've made considerable progress.   :ThumbsUp:

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2016, 03:55:16 PM »
I could have done the next step in the lathe, but I would then have needed to freehand grind a round nose tool, and I suck at grinding tools.
I have a good set of ball nose milling cutters so decided that would be the best way forward.
The lathe still got used though, as I need a fixture for the rotary table to hold the bearing blocks.
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2016, 04:10:38 PM »
From now on, I'm no longer using my camera in auto mode, it sucks.
All photo's below are manual mode, so much better.

Next job to do was to cut the angle on the backside of the bearing blocks.
This angle isn't critical, but more aesthetically pleasing if both sides are the same :D

I slid both bearings blocks onto some precision ground 12mm rod and used a small drop of superglue to hold the left and right sides to each other.

The rod was then rested on the jaws of the vice and the lot rotated until close to the needed angle.
I then used one of my 10-20-40 blocks, packed up with a 0.25mm feeler gauge to centre height of the rod so I could eyeball along the top edge of the 10-20-40 block and tweak the angle.
Once happy the vice was nipped-up, heighth set off the rod, rod then lid out and I started cutting.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 04:14:24 PM by /// »
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2016, 04:24:29 PM »
Last operation for the bearing blocks (for now) was tapping and then checking for fit.
The fit was near perfect, the 12mm rod just dropped into place and there are zero gaps, check that fit in the close-up, same on both sides. Gotta be happy with that :)

Moving onwards and upwards, the bearing caps.
I found a bit of scrap mystery Ali, dressed and squared it up, picked the best faces as reference surfaces for subsequent work and decided it was beer o'clock.
Will try to get some more done tomorrow, but got a christmas lunch with the inlaws. :mad:
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2016, 04:38:52 PM »
Before I start work on the bearing caps, I have a decision to make, 8mm or 7mm?

Rather than using cap head bolts, I'll be using studs and nuts, just looks nicer and isn't much extra work, well worth the time.

Problem is, the nut will be difficult to do up.
I much prefer the 7mm counterbore (on the right), but I'll never get a socket in there.
If I go with 8mm counterbore (left side) then I can probably chuck a socket in the lathe and turn it down to fit.... but the 7 looks so much better.

What to do, what to do... sleep on it.
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

Offline kvom

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2016, 07:59:14 PM »
Modify the arch of the cap to make the flats longer.  Then a small open end wrench can be used to tighten.

Offline bruedney

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2016, 07:45:46 PM »
Hi Simon

Looking good -  :popcorn:

Would you be willing to share the metric plans?

Cheers

Bruce
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Offline Doc

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2016, 04:22:45 AM »
Hahaha I can relate to the sleep on it have had to do this myself a time or two.

Good work looking good!

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2016, 06:14:21 AM »
The writer Marcel Proust was famous for reporting that one day he inserted a comma, and the next day removed it.  He still managed to write some very long books.  If you had drilled one hole and then plugged it the next day you'd be in a similar situation.  As is is you've made considerable progress.   :ThumbsUp:

Modify the arch of the cap to make the flats longer.  Then a small open end wrench can be used to tighten.

Thanks kvom!
Apologies for missing your first reply, don't know how I missed that, I got a good laugh. I have to admit I had never before heard of Marcel Proust and had to edjumacate myself... wow!
I sure hope my build doesn't end up in a similar situation  :Lol:
His 'novel' "In search of lost time" is 4300 pages in the current translation, was started in 1909 and not finished at his death in 1922!  :o

Regarding the bearing cap, thanks, I had considered making the flats longer by using a smaller fillet radius but it kind of ruined the look of the part (in 3D).
I have since found a 5mm socket in my bag of random tools and I think I can probably get away with thinning the socket to fit the 7mm counterbore.
There will be little material at the 'corners' of the socket, but I don't expect I'll ever be torqueing it enough to be a problem.
If the thinned socket does fail, then I'll try at making a tube socket like the type pictured... I need a long reach socket for the spark-plug anyway, a Rimfire Micro Viper Z1, which is also 5mm like the nuts.
Interestingly, Rimfire list the Z series as 6mm Hex, but I measure it at 5mm across flats, I'm guessing Rimfire measure across corners  :shrug:

Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2016, 06:24:03 AM »
Hi Simon

Looking good -  :popcorn:

Would you be willing to share the metric plans?

Cheers

Bruce

Cheers Bruce!
Sure, please be aware though that there aren't any plans per se .... yet.
Currently the 'plans' are: ~2/3 finished as 3D model parts, penciled scribbles on notepad, dimensioned off the 3D parts as I get ready to machine them.
I had started to replace my dimensions on David Kerzels drawings, but then I started changing things and his drawings were no longer suitable...
When I'm done with the build I will look at doing some 'As Built' drawings, omitting my mistakes ofcourse ;)
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2016, 06:28:19 AM »
Hahaha I can relate to the sleep on it have had to do this myself a time or two.

Good work looking good!

Cheers Doc!
Haha, yes I do a lot of 'sleeping on it', though sometimes the 'it' doesn't let me sleep easy  >:(
Lifelong problem, too many things rattling around in my head at bed time.
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2016, 06:44:42 AM »
I could have sworn when I visited this site on my phone yesterday, there was a post here from 'plataman', now it is gone :shrug:

Oh well, After yesterday's christmas lunch with the in-laws, I only managed enough time in the shop to drill one hole in the bearing cap blank, hardly worth a photo, however, in-case anyone has wondered about the rather rough looking finish in the left-hand bearing block, it's actually not as rough as it looks.

While trying to slide the this block over the 12mm rod before machining the angle, it would not budge, I'm guessing the part had shrunk a little and the hole was now a bee's thingy smaller.

I resorted to scraping, by sliding the block on the rod as far as it would go then removing, the rod would leave a mark where the tight contact was.
With a very sharp (new) exacto blade, I was able to shave minute amounts from the area and then test fit again, repeating the process until the block was a nice sliding fit on the rod.
The shavings were so thin that they would float away in the air currents in the room!
I've never done this before, but most certainly will again, even if it looks a bit ugly, the fit is close to perfect. (nothing IS perfect ;))
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2016, 11:43:26 AM »
Well, thatís Christmas done for another year, I hope everyone had a good holiday!
Unfortunately Iíve not done anything further on the engine since before the Chrissy break, so Iím itching to get back into the workshop but thatís not likely until after New Year. Even then, Iím going to be busy with family stuff.
Iíve had time to drop-in and catch-up with othersí projects, but no time to post updates to my own. As mentioned in the previous post, I only managed enough time on Sunday (18th Dec) to drill one measly hole in the bearing cap blank.
It was a similar story for the following day (Mon 19th), I found enough time after work to drill and counterbore the caps.


Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2016, 11:45:40 AM »
Work was quiet on Tuesday so I left early and got quite a bit done in the shop.
First up was milling the flats on either side of the caps. It was here that I noticed the mill needed tramming, again. One day Iíll get around to modifying this X2! Iíve only had it a decade or so :rolleyes:


Now the square work was done for this, it was time to remove the vice and mount the rotary table.
One day Iíll have a mill with a table big enough to have both vice and RT mounted together!
With the head trammed and RT set-up and centred, I moved over to the lathe to quickly turn-up another fixture, this time to hold the bearing blank, once done, it was chucked in the RT collet holder and the work clamped down, ready for rounding the bearing cap.
I had earlier (at work, it was very quiet!) roughly drawn the cap and milling cutter start/end positions in AutoCAD to determine the total angle I needed to turn, which measured a smidge over 105į.




With that done, it was time to remove the RT and set-up and square the vice again (urgh!) for removing the excess material and then parting the caps. I decided to do this with the 0.5mm slitting saw but struck a problem.

This is a Taig (Peatol) holder I had purchased some time ago but it has never been very useful, having clearance issues of some sort almost every time I have needed to use it.
So, it was time to make a better one with less clearance issues.
The following holder(and all the earlier fixtures) was turned from a length of 18mm (0.71Ē) diameter rod that machines beautifully. Unfortunately, I now only have a short stub of this left. Iím hoping I can find some more old electric typewriters I can strip down to salvage similar sized bars ;)
Old printers are also a good source of nice machinable mystery steel, but theyíre rarely larger than about ĹĒ dia.





That took care of all my shop time for Tuesday, but I was happy with what I got done.
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2016, 11:47:13 AM »
Wednesday it was time to slice off the excess material, this was quick and easy and I was surprised at how clean the saw cut was!

Much nicer than with the Taig holder, which I decided was due to the increased shank diameter (18mm/0.71Ē) making this holder far more rigid than the Taig version (9.5mm 3/8Ē)
Itís also nicer to use with the metric cap screw, the Taig one had some weird screw that none of my Allen/Hex keys would fit snugglyÖ. not even my imperial ones!
I could have sawn to finished size, but based on history with the Taig holder I thought it safer to saw oversize and finish with an endmill.



With the excess off, it was time to split the caps and reduce to final width which ended Wednesdayís shop time.



Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2016, 11:48:01 AM »
Thursday I couldnít decide which part to make next, but looking at the trial fit I couldnít help but think how nice it would be to see the studs and nuts in placeÖ.
For the first time in this build, I grabbed some non-salvaged, non-mystery metal from my stock.
A length of 1/8Ē (3.18mm) BMS was chucked in the lathe (ER32 collet) about 25mm long and turned to 2.95mm diameter, an M3 die was used to thread 6mm long, then the rod was parted off 17mm long and this was repeated 3 more times.
I then inserted the threaded end of one stud into the collet to face and thread the other end.
I was worried about damage to the existing thread from the sharp edges inside the hardened collet and I was right to be worried, but going over that end with the die again (by hand) cleaned up the threads. I need something else to do this, but the ER collet is all I have for now.
A test fit to see if the threads were ok..

The remaining three studs got the same treatment and then a cap was test fitted.

Now it was time for the nuts.
I have some 5mm (0.2Ē) hex mild steel stock and I decided the nut should be about 2.5mm thick.
Modelling this in 3D (see an earlier post) the proportions were pleasing to my eye, so that is what I went with. Iím sure there is a standard out there but this looks fine to me.
The 4mm ER32 collet I was using for the studs has 6 point gripping, but when I put the 6mm collet into the holder I realised it had 8 point gripping, DOH!
Oh well, off with the collet chuck and on with the 3 jaw.  The hex was faced and then the corners knocked off 30į with the side of a 60į single point threading insert. Drilled 15mm (~0.6Ē) deep with a 2.5mm drill then tapped M3. I couldnít find my good M3 tap anywhere, I turned the workshop upside down and wasted a lot of time looking and ended up using a cheap and nasty looking M3 tap in frustration, but the threads actually cut quite nice and there was very little slop when test fit on a stud.
My parting tool reminded me I need some thinner ones, Iím wasting more material than Iím using on this small stuff.



To clean up the parted side of the nut I made a basic mandrel but ofcourse the die canít cut right to the corner so a couple of washers were needed. With the nut threaded, the parting dag was taken care of with facing cuts and then the single point threading tool used again to knock the corners off.



It was now time to try reducing a 5mm socket to fit the 7mm (~0.27Ē) counterbore.
The socket turned nicely, surprisingly, but in a moment of insanity I forgot to halve the cross slide travel and cut way too deep. It was the sound of interrupted cutting that reminded me of my error, and two of the corners broke throughÖ oh well, the socket fits with plenty of clearance and it still works fine at the torque levels Iím using it, but Iíll find another socket to reduce at a later date.




Now the socket, studs and nuts were done, it was time for another test fit.
Even though there were few parts made, Thursday felt productive and Iím quite happy with the result, but the studs do need shortening.




And thatís where Christmas took over.
Iím not sure where to go next, I was thinking the cylinder, piston and rings but Iíll need an ultra thin grooving tool and have decided is probably easier if I purchase from AR Warner and wait for delivery half way around the world.
Maybe Iíll continue at the back end here, line bore the bearing blocks/caps, turn the PB bushes, and move on to the crank.
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

Offline Doc

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2016, 05:14:44 PM »
You are moving right along and everything looks so nice!!
Nice work and nice pictures!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Offline rudydubya

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2016, 09:47:27 PM »
I'm enjoying following along, Simon.  And nice photography.  Looking forward to the rest of your build.

Regards,
Rudy

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2016, 06:10:57 AM »
Cheers Gents!
I'm still refining the photography, biggest issue currently is the lighting. I have a hodgepodge of workshop lights, Incandescent, Halogen, LED, each with slightly different colour( you can see this in the reflections, yellow/orange/blue-white) so depending on location it plays havoc with the white balance which I have to try to massage in post-processing. I get it close to even, but sometimes the colours are a bit funky.

I have heard that pro photographers can take hundreds of shots to get one good one, I'm only taking 5 or so before I decide I have a usable one, so I have a way to go!  :Lol:
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 06:20:19 AM by /// »
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

Online MJM460

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2016, 08:54:45 AM »
Hi Simon,

Just catching up after Christmas, and enjoying following your excellent work.  Thank you particularly for including your slitting saw arbour design.  That will now be on my build list (after I buy the saw).

MJM
The more I learn, the more I find that I still have to learn!

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2016, 08:12:57 AM »
Arbor! That's the word I was looking for!
Thanks MJM, when I was writing that post I knew there was a correct term, it just refused to come out  ::)

"Excellent work"? Thanks, but I don't believe I deserve that accolade, this is my first build and the body (block?) is the single most complex part I've made to date.
Perhaps reserve such words for the day I actually get this thing finished and, fingers crossed.... running!  :zap:
Simon

"The reality is that without cheap imported machines, I would be spending my time doing something less creative and less enjoyable" - Captain Jerry

Offline steamer

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2016, 01:59:56 PM »
Arbor! That's the word I was looking for!
Thanks MJM, when I was writing that post I knew there was a correct term, it just refused to come out  ::)

"Excellent work"? Thanks, but I don't believe I deserve that accolade, this is my first build and the body (block?) is the single most complex part I've made to date.
Perhaps reserve such words for the day I actually get this thing finished and, fingers crossed.... running!  :zap:

Oh it'll run....Nice work!

Dave
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Damned ijjit!

Offline Doc

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2016, 05:33:29 PM »


Oh it'll run....Nice work!

Dave

I second that Nice arbor by the way!!

Offline gerritv

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Re: Another Kerzel
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2016, 07:46:58 PM »
That is a great way to end the year. Quality, not quantity is a good approach.

Gerrit
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