Author Topic: Wood cladding of cylinders.  (Read 6347 times)

Offline Gas_mantle

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Wood cladding of cylinders.
« on: December 09, 2016, 06:21:16 PM »
Hi all

I'm renovating a Stuart 10h that I got at a bargain price but the brass sheet around the cylinder is in a poor state so I thought about wood cladding it but not really sure on the type of wood.

Anyone know what kind woods work well on an engine that will be subject to steam, or can planks be ready bought and just cut to size ? I realise it's not a big job to cut a few planks but if they and be bought for a few quid I'd be happy to do that to get a decent product.

To be honest I bought the engine to sell on but it's a great little runner and very well made so I've become attached to it and would rather keep it  :)

Thanks
Peter.

Online Jo

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2016, 08:49:19 PM »
Are you fond of visiting coffee shops  :embarassed:

When I was a visiting researcher the students learnt that I used the coffee stirrers for cladding my cylinders and by the end of the day I would go home with enough sticks to clad many engines  :naughty:

Jo

P.S. Some supermarkets also provide free coffee to go with their free cylinder cladding sticks and free paper serviettes for wiping up in the workshop  :mischief:
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Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2016, 07:30:22 PM »
Thanks Jo that's worth a look, I did wonder about lolly sticks but they seem a bit cheap and splintery  :D

Online Roger B

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2016, 09:38:52 PM »
Lolly sticks (and kebab skewers etc) are actually good quality wood. giving people splinters in the tongue is not good advertising  ::) 
Best regards

Roger

Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2016, 08:09:52 PM »
Thanks, after a lot of searching I've found an online supply of hobby wood packages :-)

Online Jasonb

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2016, 08:14:18 PM »
If you have a slitting saw for your mill you can make your own.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,705.msg17954.html#msg17954

The model boat suppliers will have various hardwood planks too

Offline Ramon

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2016, 08:20:13 PM »
Jason just pipped me to the post Peter. Some model shops specialising in ship models usually have good supplies of walnut and mahogany in quite small sections

I used 5mm x 1mm walnut for the Double 10 glued to a backing of 1/64 plywood. If you can get a small piece of that too it will easily wrap around your cylinder with the grain vertically


Hope that helps as well  - Ramon
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Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2016, 08:30:19 PM »
Thanks guys

I'd been considering getting a slitting saw so your suggestions are a great help.

I thought there'd be loads of it on dolls house builders sites but couldn't find any so thought I'd ask here - eventually I stumbled across this site which has mahogany in small quantities :-

http://www.alwayshobbies.com/materials/wood/stripwood/mahogany-stripwood-bundles-of-10

Since I first asked I've now lost the damned valve so making another one is my first job for tomorrow  >:(

Offline georgineer

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2016, 10:42:14 PM »
My Pa told me that the wood cladding is properly called cleading.

George

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2016, 07:40:16 AM »
Hi Peter

I use the coffee stick route and stain them a nice mahogany colour, but the real trick is fitting them:-

I found the best way is to first stick them to a piece of cotton cloth with copydex, let the glue go off then cut to shape with scissors and simply fold it round the cylinder and fix in place with brass strips, job done.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the way

Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2016, 01:23:57 PM »
Thanks Stew,

I did wonder about how to get them to fit neatly. At least the materials aren't expensive so I can have a few goes if it doesn't go right first time  ;)

Offline Ian S C

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2016, 03:22:50 PM »
When I did the Stuart Turner S9 I used cardboard to make a template, I used metal cleading.
Ian S C

Online Jim Nic

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2016, 05:34:42 PM »
Plus 1 for the coffee stirrer with backing cloth as described by Stew Hart.  I first "discovered" this method described by Jo in a build log (I don't recall which one).  If it's good enough for the likes of Jo and Stew it'll certainly do for me.
I gently stretch a piece of cotton cloth (handkerchief weight works well and ErIndoors doesn't notice I've lost one  ;) ) out on a scrap piece of melamine covered chipboard and hold it in place with masking tape.  I then stick the coffee stirrers to the cloth with a small amount of PVA glue, minimising the glue on the edges of the wood, and leave it to dry.  Once dry the sticks and backing can be cut to approximate shape and size with a Stanley knife and when lifted off the melamine can be bent gently into wrap around shape and trimmed to fit round valve chest or what have you.  I colour it with mahogany stain after it is cut to shape so that all the edges are covered.  A couple of brass boiler bands set it off nicely.
I have clad a Potty Engineering Vertical Cross Single and an Eastern & Anderson Grasshopper this way with pleasing (to my eye) results.
Jim
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Offline Captain Jerry

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2016, 05:57:18 PM »
Historical Accuracy.

I was going to ask this on a separate topic but since this one is already talking about wooden cleading, here is my question.

Was wooden cleading used on marine steam engines in the 1860 period?  I am curious as to whether or not it might have been used on the USS Monitor Ironclad.  The appearance of the cylinder, with the raised lip at either end looks like it was intended to be clad.
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Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2016, 01:06:50 AM »
Thanks guys.

Jim, you made a good job of the vertical engine  :)

Online Dan Rowe

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2016, 04:11:44 PM »
Historical Accuracy.
Was wooden cleading used on marine steam engines in the 1860 period?

Jerry,
I checked my book on the CSS Alabama and it stated that the cylinders were covered in felt then cased in wood for insulation. This was a back acting engine also known as a return crank engine used in the Civil War.

Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline Captain Jerry

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2016, 02:10:05 AM »
Historical Accuracy.
Was wooden cleading used on marine steam engines in the 1860 period?

Jerry,
I checked my book on the CSS Alabama and it stated that the cylinders were covered in felt then cased in wood for insulation. This was a back acting engine also known as a return crank engine used in the Civil War.

Dan

Thanks, Dan.  I suspected that the Monitor engine would be insulated with wood for all the usual reasons of heat retention for efficiency plus the fact that the engine room of the Monitor was much smaller than other ships of its era which was the main reason for the unusual configuration of the engine.  Low head room, low center of gravity, narrow beam, all demand a compact power plant.  I am not surprised that after more than 100 years on the ocean floor none of the wooden cladding remained but I don't know of any other reason for the prominent ridge around both ends of the cylinder than to provide support for cladding.
There are thing that you can do and some things you can't do.
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Online Jasonb

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2016, 07:34:34 AM »
If you did not have the prominent edge at the ends of the cylinder you would need a much thicker cylinder wall to give the studs something to screw into and it also gives a greater surface area for gaskets. You see it on ones with decorative mouldings around the cylinder too which had no cleading.

As mentioned above felt and other materials would have provided better insulation than wood and could have been covered in "blue iron" cleading which would be a lot thinner than wood so the theory about a tight engine room would not be the reason for wood.

Offline Captain Jerry

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2016, 01:11:04 PM »
If you did not have the prominent edge at the ends of the cylinder you would need a much thicker cylinder wall to give the studs something to screw into and it also gives a greater surface area for gaskets. You see it on ones with decorative mouldings around the cylinder too which had no cleading.

As mentioned above felt and other materials would have provided better insulation than wood and could have been covered in "blue iron" cleading which would be a lot thinner than wood so the theory about a tight engine room would not be the reason for wood.

Jason- You may be right. I am just thinking out loud to put off doing something productive.  My thought about close quarters was not  concern for a few inches of clearance but had to do more with the effect of radiated heat and contact with the crew during lube and maintenance duties. By "blue iron" I guess you mean thin rolled sheet steel. Was that available in the 1860 period and would it not be less comfortable when in contact with crew?  "Blue iron" may not outlast a 100 year sea water environment any better than wood but that is just another question?  And of course felt and other materials provide insulation but still must be covered.

Wood may have been used rather than sheet metal cleading for reasons of expediency as well.  This ship was built on a very tight schedule of about 100 days.  Sheet iron would need to be designed and ordered and I would think that drawings would exist if that were the case while felt and wood might be handled with a one line specification "Cover with insulation".

But it seem more likely than not that the cylinder was covered, doesn't it?
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Online Jo

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2016, 03:49:43 PM »
This guy seems to have put a lot of research into his monitor model: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?949949-The-1-16-Scale-Steam-Engine-of-the-U-S-S-Monitor & http://www.stationarysteam.com/monitor.html - lots of detail there.

Jo
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 03:54:49 PM by Jo »
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Offline 10KPete

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2016, 04:12:09 PM »
This guy seems to have put a lot of research into his monitor model: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?949949-The-1-16-Scale-Steam-Engine-of-the-U-S-S-Monitor & http://www.stationarysteam.com/monitor.html - lots of detail there.

Jo

That model Rich built was the first I'd seen and was done specifically to be an exact model. A truly beautiful piece of work!

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Online Jasonb

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2016, 04:42:11 PM »
Sheet iron would need to be designed and ordered and I would think that drawings would exist if that were the case while felt and wood might be handled with a one line specification "Cover with insulation".

But it seem more likely than not that the cylinder was covered, doesn't it?

The Blue iron also sometimes called Russian Steel is just a blued steel/wrought iton sheet and would only have needed cutting to template which is quick and easy to do.

You see it on many engines, virtually all Loco's have it as you don't see them with wood cleading, same with traction engines and a lot of stationary engines too but as you say being so thin it is one of the first things to rust away bit like this

http://prestonservices.co.uk/item/a-g-mumford-steam-yacht-type/

Definately likely that the cylinders were insulated and then covered with the cleading these are two separate items

Online Jo

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2016, 05:50:11 PM »
virtually all Loco's have it as you don't see them with wood cleading,

Mobile Beam engines have it  ;D

Jo
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Online Jasonb

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2016, 06:27:03 PM »
We are talking cylinder cleading not boiler cleading :ShakeHead: and I did say Virtually all

Now you will tell me the cylinder is in the boiler on that one so that counts ;)

Online Roger B

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Re: Wood cladding of cylinders.
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2016, 09:44:08 PM »
 :) :) :) :)  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Best regards

Roger