Author Topic: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine  (Read 111081 times)

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2070 on: September 13, 2017, 06:36:19 PM »
I think you will be  much happier having done it the right way Chris. With the loss of pressure due to the leak fixed, the engine should run better as well and maybe even the burner issues will be minimized.

Bill
I'm hoping so!

The first attempt was one step forward, step and a half back though. Ran a pressure test on it, and the original leak is fixed, but now the joint at the firetube and back cap has a hairline crack. This happened during the original solder-up too, forgot that I need to heat both the outside tube and the fire tube, or they expand differently, given the tubes are a foot long each, putting too much stress on that joint. So, need to reheat again. Hope this is not a never-ending cycle!
 :paranoia:

Offline Stuart

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2071 on: September 13, 2017, 06:40:44 PM »
Is that a pin hole at 20 min to the hour tube to end cap

Be very careful you could be on the road to a big problem the heating cooling cycle to hard solder a leak can keep going .

Thatís one reason for using comsol
My aim is for a accurate part with a good finish

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2072 on: September 13, 2017, 07:09:17 PM »
Is that a pin hole at 20 min to the hour tube to end cap

Be very careful you could be on the road to a big problem the heating cooling cycle to hard solder a leak can keep going .

Thatís one reason for using comsol
Nope, thats just a shadow from a bump.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2073 on: September 13, 2017, 07:56:50 PM »
Hi Stuart,


I looked up the solders like Comsol, and some of the discussions about using it for this kind of leak patch. The surrounding high temp silver braze is holding the structure of the joint, but even so the general recommendations are not to use the lower temperature soft solders with it. One reason is the inability to use the hard solder in that location later if needed, I can see that reasoning. For the other direction, will the soft solder like Comsol stick to the hard solder?
The PMR boilers use rivets for structure, and the soft solder for sealing the joints, but not both together.
I am no expert on these issues, would love to have others with more experience chime in, including you Stuart. I want to get this boiler working properly, but don't want to go down a one way path if it may not do the job.
Comments everyone?

Edit: I am posting this while waiting for the boiler to col from latest attempt at resoldering. Even if it all is good this time, please chime in on these questions!
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 08:00:10 PM by crueby »

Offline AOG

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2074 on: September 13, 2017, 08:50:20 PM »
I feel your pain. I'm chasing the same issues on my boiler. Fix one pin hole by reheating and you create another one somwhere else. Jo recommended using a very small pin punch and peening the pin holes closed instead of reheating. I have worked over my boiler that way but I haven't had a chance to retest it yet. You might want to give it a try.

Tony

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2075 on: September 13, 2017, 09:10:13 PM »
I feel your pain. I'm chasing the same issues on my boiler. Fix one pin hole by reheating and you create another one somwhere else. Jo recommended using a very small pin punch and peening the pin holes closed instead of reheating. I have worked over my boiler that way but I haven't had a chance to retest it yet. You might want to give it a try.

Tony
That can work on joints around small bushings or pipes, on larger diameters like this the expansion from heating usually makes it fail again. It is a good way to close up an opening so the solder will fill it though, also is a good way to lock parts into a slot or dovetail.

Online Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2076 on: September 13, 2017, 09:15:19 PM »
I still have my PMR boiler castings kit  in the box and have never built a model size boiler, however, I have been involved with the welding, inspection, and testing of several full size recovery boilers. I'll admit to using every trick in the book to get a successful hydro for the AIs( insurance company and state boiler inspectors ) I have used hot water ( if you knew the right mill person you might even get some really hot water) I have peened, I have used straight polarity on a reverse polarity electrode to "blow back " the water and seal up a pinhole, I've tried them all to make deadlines and keep a paycheck ( part of the reason I gave it up) , but, upon getting a successful hydro, we always went back and fixed it the safe and proper way. The rework after the fact was a lot cheaper than holding up a successful hydro. You did the right thing Chris. You aren't constrained by backcharges.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Awesome project.

Cletus

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2077 on: September 13, 2017, 09:29:05 PM »
I still have my PMR boiler castings kit  in the box and have never built a model size boiler, however, I have been involved with the welding, inspection, and testing of several full size recovery boilers. I'll admit to using every trick in the book to get a successful hydro for the AIs( insurance company and state boiler inspectors ) I have used hot water ( if you knew the right mill person you might even get some really hot water) I have peened, I have used straight polarity on a reverse polarity electrode to "blow back " the water and seal up a pinhole, I've tried them all to make deadlines and keep a paycheck ( part of the reason I gave it up) , but, upon getting a successful hydro, we always went back and fixed it the safe and proper way. The rework after the fact was a lot cheaper than holding up a successful hydro. You did the right thing Chris. You aren't constrained by backcharges.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Awesome project.

Cletus
Excellent info!

So, when are you stopping by to help with the soldering??   :lolb:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2078 on: September 13, 2017, 10:15:38 PM »
Just got another round in, ran another pressure test - almost! But, not quite! Still one pinhole at the top of the fire tube joint to the backhead.

Enough for one day. Maybe two.

Wheres that cookie??

Online Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2079 on: September 14, 2017, 12:34:35 AM »
Boy I wish I could Chris. I have qualified on "soft soldering " up to four inch pipe, qualified on glueing up to six inch PVC , and welding with Tig and stick up to four inch wall thickness on high chrome content steel, but, I reckon I ain't never silver soldered the first thing. As Jimmy Buffet says: "ah the stories I could tell." On the other hand, there are some really good "metal composites in a stick" out there today that may just take care of the problem with lots less fuss. That was the left hand, the right one says you did the right thing by going to the root of the problem.  Carry on

Cletus

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2080 on: September 14, 2017, 02:38:22 AM »
The next time I am building a boiler I think I will send all the bits to Tennessee to be Tig'ed together!


 :cheers:


Hmmm... There's a question, can a copper boiler be Tig'ed? Tiggered? Whatever the initials are?   :facepalm2:

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2081 on: September 14, 2017, 04:48:27 AM »
The next time I am building a boiler I think I will send all the bits to Tennessee to be Tig'ed together!


 :cheers:


Hmmm... There's a question, can a copper boiler be Tig'ed? Tiggered? Whatever the initials are?   :facepalm2:

The only trouble Chris........... is that, nowadays, that boiler might come back held together with "Ole Tennessee's Special BBQ sauce"!  :lolb:

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill

Offline Steamer5

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2082 on: September 14, 2017, 06:54:04 AM »
Hi Chris,
 Keep at it, more cookies prior to starting work me thinks!

BBQ sauce ...... :P Cletus do you ship?  :lolb:

On the TIGing front, yes it's done on copper, takes a bit of setup I understand, a friend had one done years ago at the engineering company he worked at at the time. Rules down here have aligned with Australia, the AMBSC codes, which without reading them thru to confirm no longer allow TIGed boilers.

Looking forward to more running videos soon!

Cheers Kerrin
Get excited and make something!

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2083 on: September 14, 2017, 09:59:57 AM »
Hi Chris, 30 years ago, I have done some silver soldering with the TIG welder. The task there was to fix a steel bush into the thin metal sheet of an oil pan.
The solder was delivered by Degussa now called Evonik and it works like a treat. Most of the heat was given to the bush with the TIG needle, so that the thin sheeet could not be overheated and melt. The solder was used similar like the welding process, drop by drop.
The above mentioned company does not sell the solders any more but I am sure there is similar stuff still in the market.
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2084 on: September 14, 2017, 03:15:06 PM »
The next time I am building a boiler I think I will send all the bits to Tennessee to be Tig'ed together!


 :cheers:


Hmmm... There's a question, can a copper boiler be Tig'ed? Tiggered? Whatever the initials are?   :facepalm2:

The only trouble Chris........... is that, nowadays, that boiler might come back held together with "Ole Tennessee's Special BBQ sauce"!  :lolb:

Jim
If it sticks to metal like it sticks to your ribs, should be good to go!  :Lol: