Author Topic: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine  (Read 298314 times)

Offline 10KPete

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #795 on: February 20, 2017, 08:27:26 PM »
Water cooling is necessary only if you are in a hurry.  :Lol:

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Online crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #796 on: February 20, 2017, 09:40:58 PM »
Yeah, quenching brass or copper doesn't change anything but how fast it gets cool, not like with steel. On a large complex part it could cause distortion if it cools unevenly, but that isn't a problem with sheet stock like this. It's surprising how easy annealed brass will bend, to a point. As soon as it work hardens it just stops moving. For the thicker copper endcaps for the boiler it will take several heatings and bendings to get the cap shape, since it needs to reform more, not just bend.

Offline kvom

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #797 on: February 20, 2017, 09:54:26 PM »
After being gone for a couple of weeks, I'm now caught up.  Lots of progress.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #798 on: February 20, 2017, 11:22:37 PM »
Yeah, quenching brass or copper doesn't change anything but how fast it gets cool, not like with steel. On a large complex part it could cause distortion if it cools unevenly, but that isn't a problem with sheet stock like this. It's surprising how easy annealed brass will bend, to a point. As soon as it work hardens it just stops moving. For the thicker copper endcaps for the boiler it will take several heatings and bendings to get the cap shape, since it needs to reform more, not just bend.

That's one of the amazing things I learned about metal.

I like this forum. Great explanations and help.
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Online crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #799 on: February 21, 2017, 12:00:36 AM »
After being gone for a couple of weeks, I'm now caught up.  Lots of progress.
Thanks! And welcome back!

Yeah, quenching brass or copper doesn't change anything but how fast it gets cool, not like with steel. On a large complex part it could cause distortion if it cools unevenly, but that isn't a problem with sheet stock like this. It's surprising how easy annealed brass will bend, to a point. As soon as it work hardens it just stops moving. For the thicker copper endcaps for the boiler it will take several heatings and bendings to get the cap shape, since it needs to reform more, not just bend.

That's one of the amazing things I learned about metal.

I like this forum. Great explanations and help.
I have learned a ton of stuff here!

Online crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #800 on: February 21, 2017, 12:06:12 AM »
After a good nap, some good food, another nap, and some time reading, felt recharged enough to finish drilling the rivet and mounting bolt holes in the firebox shell. Its ready for riveting together and for the rows of faux staybolts (both will be same rivets). The ones to hold it together are too close to the edge for the riveting tool, I think, so they may need to be hammered in. The rest will use the tool, made like Florians wonderful post last fall.

The shell seems to be stiff enough that I dont need to add any more bracing on the inside, will know for sure once the corners are riveted up. If it needs it, I can add some bars to one or two of the horizontal rows.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 01:31:28 AM by crueby »

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #801 on: February 21, 2017, 12:19:54 AM »
Great stuff Chris. Sorry to hear you were down with a cold, hope you are feeling better.---Brian

Online crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #802 on: February 21, 2017, 12:23:30 AM »
Great stuff Chris. Sorry to hear you were down with a cold, hope you are feeling better.---Brian
Thanks Brian! I was worried when it first hit with such severity, but it has receeded remarkably quickly. Maybe the shop elves put some magic into that last batch of the cookies...!  Feeling much better now, just need to get the full strength back again.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #803 on: February 21, 2017, 01:48:11 AM »
Great stuff Chris. Sorry to hear you were down with a cold, hope you are feeling better.---Brian
Thanks Brian! I was worried when it first hit with such severity, but it has receeded remarkably quickly. Maybe the shop elves put some magic into that last batch of the cookies...!  Feeling much better now, just need to get the full strength back again.

I would wish for half your strength.
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Online crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #804 on: February 21, 2017, 03:20:27 AM »
Great stuff Chris. Sorry to hear you were down with a cold, hope you are feeling better.---Brian
Thanks Brian! I was worried when it first hit with such severity, but it has receeded remarkably quickly. Maybe the shop elves put some magic into that last batch of the cookies...!  Feeling much better now, just need to get the full strength back again.

I would wish for half your strength.
At least I don't get big and green when angry! Way too hard on the clothes.

Online crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #805 on: February 21, 2017, 04:33:28 PM »
With all the drilling done, time to get the rivets themselves in. The ones I am using are 1/16" shank brass round head rivets. They come in several lengths, whatever length they come is never the length you need, so I usually get the longer ones and use a small end cutter to trim them to length.

I am putting in the ones in the fields of the plates first, since it makes them easier to handle, then will do the corner attachment ones last. For the ones nearest the corner, the riveting tool is too big, so they were done on the edge of a small anvil with a hammer - just needed a few hits to flare the bottom end and make it hold.

For the rest, I switched over to the forming tool like Florian showed in another build - it does a very quick job, and puts a nice round end on both ends of the rivets while drawing them up tight. It does take a few tries to learn how long to cut them to, but once that is figured out its easy to do full rows at a time. I showed this earlier on in the build:

Here is the first plate half done:

I am going to leave one rivet open at the front upper corners to use to attach a strap over the top of the boiler tube. That strap will be hidden by the saddle tank over the top of the boiler.

Lots more to go...
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 01:31:48 AM by crueby »

Online Dan Rowe

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #806 on: February 21, 2017, 04:49:35 PM »
It does take a few tries to learn how long to cut them to

My rule of thumb is 1.5 times the rivet shank diameter, which would be 3/32. I drill a hole in a scrap piece of stock to make a cutting guide. How close does this match what you are doing?

Dan
ShaylocoDan

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #807 on: February 21, 2017, 04:56:49 PM »
It does take a few tries to learn how long to cut them to

My rule of thumb is 1.5 times the rivet shank diameter, which would be 3/32. I drill a hole in a scrap piece of stock to make a cutting guide. How close does this match what you are doing?

Dan
If you mean 1.5x the shank diameter sticking out the other side of the stock, that sounds about right. A lot depends on the size of the hollow in the end of the forming tool. For mine, I think I am going a little longer than that, and leaving a broader head on the inside. I would say 1.5 to 2x would be a good range. For hammering it over, I tend to go a little shorter. Once I got the length figured out I just started snipping them off by eye, the exact length is not that critical.

Online Dan Rowe

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #808 on: February 21, 2017, 05:08:15 PM »
Chris,
I make the dies match the factory head with a slight bit sticking out so the die does not make a mark on the plates.
Here is the formula for set allowance for British practice:
http://www.sapphireproducts.co.uk/641t1.htm

I just rounded S=1.429D to S=1.5D.

Dan
ShaylocoDan

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #809 on: February 21, 2017, 05:46:19 PM »
Chris,
I make the dies match the factory head with a slight bit sticking out so the die does not make a mark on the plates.
Here is the formula for set allowance for British practice:
http://www.sapphireproducts.co.uk/641t1.htm

I just rounded S=1.429D to S=1.5D.

Dan
Great diagram - thanks!  After doing another batch, I am coming down to that 1.5x mark. Longer and it tends to push off to one side, shorter and it doesnt leave a full round.