Author Topic: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine  (Read 257075 times)

Offline crueby

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Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« on: October 22, 2016, 08:42:05 PM »
Okay, its time for a big project, and next on the list is a running model of a Lombard Hauler, which was the first commercially successul vehicle with a track drive, back in the early 1900s. They were used in the northern woods (mainly USA, some went to other countries) to haul logs on sleds out of the woods to the sawmills and rail terminals. They were steam powered, using a locomotive style boiler and two double acting engines, one on each side, just like a locomotive, but rather than drive wheels that had a track mechanism on each side and runners at the front (runners could be switched to wheels for moving when no snow on the ground). Here are pictures of from the original patents of the engine and the track system:


as well as a picture of one in use:


Note the steersman at the front - he could control the runners as well as an optional plow blade at the front. He could communicate via a bell rope or whistle back to the engineer in the cab. No brakes, so sometimes they had to bail out if control was lost.

The engines drove a shaft across the middle of the frame, which via chain drive ran a differential underneath

which had, on its output shaft, a pair of drive chains down to the tracks on either side

The tracks themselve look a lot like the modern tracks on a bulldozer or tank today, except that instead of the current system of sprung road wheels to support the middle of the track sections, they used a roller chain under a fixed plate


Those parts are going to be the most challenging to build - lots of interchangeable parts that need to be made. One thing going for me on this project is that there are several of these engines still running, and the Maine Forest And Logging Museum up in Bradley Maine restored theirs just a few years ago, and they have put up a TON of pictures, videos, and drawings on their website that is an absolute treasure trove of information, much more than is available for lots of old engines. They did a complete teardown and restoration of their engine, which is now in beautiful running order.
http://www.maineforestandloggingmuseum.org/lombards-in-bradley
If you go through thier site, you can see all the steps they took, with photo and video documentation along the way. A lot of the work involved students from the University of Maine, which also has lots of information. They have a lot of history of these engines, including vintage photos, and even the parts catalog from the manufacturer!

Given all that available information, I am going to make this as detailed a model as I can, though there will always be some details that need to be modified to make this a working model at a small scale. The tracks will all be made, and since the style of chain used in the drive is not available (at least that I can find) at this size, the drive and roller chains will also be made. I have found the same style of drive chain in model scales, but only in plastic, not in metal so far.

The model will be to 1" to 1' scale, which makes it approximately 30" long, 8" wide, and 10-1/2" tall. It will have a 3" diameter copper boiler, which will be a butane fired single-firetube style rather than the original coal/wood option, though I will model in the outer shell of the original style boiler's firebox, it will just have a gas burner inside it. It is a simaler scale (slightly larger) than my Shay locomotive, they should make a great pair. Unlike the Shay, since this one won't need tracks to run on (since it has its own), I can run this one out in the yard with the front runners replaced with wheels!

So, on to the build. I am going to be drawing up the parts as I go, starting from the ground up. The first part will be the track plates, of which I will need only 58 (plus a few spares). Here is a picture of what the real tracks look like,

and here is my drawing of the plate shape:

To make this many identical parts, it only makes sense to make jigs/fixtures wherever possible. For the model, the plates will be cut from 3/4" wide x 3/16" thick stainless steel. Each plate will need to be milled to proper length, then have the fingers along the sides milled in, the holes cross drilled, the ends of the fingers rounded, and finally the traction ridge in the center shaped. To do all that I have come up with a holding fixture that will let me position the parts for an operation, and put in one after another to do that one operation. It has two areas relief cut in, one to hold the part lengthwise and the other to hold it sideways. Here is the base plate of the fixture:

and then the top plate that bolts down onto it:

It has a couple of sets of holes to position it for the different operations. And here it is in action milling the first test blank to length:


Next up will be to spend some time at the big vise with the power saw and cut a boxful of the plate blanks out so I can start shaping them. Pictures to follow during that process...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 08:09:18 PM by crueby »

Offline Kim

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2016, 08:48:57 PM »
Wow, Chris!  I'm going to be following you on this one for sure!  :popcorn:

If you choose to put out a set of drawings, or even a book based on your build, I'll buy it from you!

You don't think small, do you Chris?  This is going to be fascinating!
Kim

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2016, 08:58:04 PM »
This will be fun to watch.
Stock Drive Products has the smallest roller chain I know of. The price is a bit steep but making chain will be tedious.
https://shop.sdp-si.com/catalog/?cid=p303

Dan
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Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2016, 09:26:42 PM »
Wow, Chris!  I'm going to be following you on this one for sure!  :popcorn:

If you choose to put out a set of drawings, or even a book based on your build, I'll buy it from you!

You don't think small, do you Chris?  This is going to be fascinating!
Kim
I will be putting up the drawings as I go in the build, maybe it will get pulled into a book someday (love to hire Kozo to draft it all!).

And no, I don't think small - have built a number of engines-only, and got to the point where I want to see them go around by themselves. Now I understand the thinking of the folks who build the traction engines and power wagons.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2016, 09:33:12 PM »
This will be fun to watch.
Stock Drive Products has the smallest roller chain I know of. The price is a bit steep but making chain will be tedious.
https://shop.sdp-si.com/catalog/?cid=p303

Dan

I had looked at their chain, but the big difference on the roller chain on the inside of the tracks is that the center pins actually have rollers on them that protrude outside the side links, so that they act like a linear roller bearing race for the tracks.

I have not seen any small (or large) chain like that produced now.

The drive chain

is a different style that is still used, but have not seen it in model sizes outside the plastic chain that MicroMark sells, and I just cant see putting a plastic drive chain on a model this heavy, plus next to the boiler with all the heat and oil and hot water (which acetal plastic does not like). Actually, I did find the drive chain style is now made by one of the gauge 1 loco makers (Regner or Roundhouse, forget which) out of brass for one of their models, but the price for the lengths I would need are way high, since they have to hand make it too.
Yup, it will be a tedious thing to make, but the look and function will be worth it. I hope!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 08:09:48 PM by crueby »

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2016, 09:42:30 PM »
Looking forward to the build Chris. I am sure you will do justice to this unique engine and it will be another fine addition to your collection.

Bill

Offline vcutajar

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2016, 10:27:29 PM »
This is going to be another interesting build Chris.  Where did I put the popcorn?

Vince

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2016, 12:02:31 AM »
Hey Chris

Good to see that you are getting started on the Lombard; what are you going to do after Christmas?  :lolb:
I will be following along with great interest.  :DrinkPint: :popcorn:

Dave

Offline kvom

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2016, 12:07:12 AM »
Quite a challenge.  In your shoes I'd likely send those track pieces out to be laser cut.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2016, 12:13:29 AM »
Quite a challenge.  In your shoes I'd likely send those track pieces out to be laser cut.

By the last one I might agree!  One of my previous projects was a 74 gun French ship of the line. That didn't cure me of models with lots of the same parts. Quite. But almost!

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2016, 12:15:34 AM »
Hey Chris

Good to see that you are getting started on the Lombard; what are you going to do after Christmas?  :lolb:
I will be following along with great interest.  :DrinkPint: :popcorn:

Dave

By then I might be starting on the first chain, maybe. Gotta win some bets against the dshop elves so the have to make some parts..  :Lol:

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2016, 03:26:14 AM »
 :whoohoo: I've been looking forward to this build Chris.

Excellent documentation to lay the ground work for this project!  :ThumbsUp:

Time to stock up on  :popcorn:

Jim
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"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2016, 03:56:23 AM »
:whoohoo: I've been looking forward to this build Chris.

Excellent documentation to lay the ground work for this project!  :ThumbsUp:

Time to stock up on  :popcorn:

Jim

We should all buy stock in popcorn makers, with all the  :popcorn: around the forum!

Offline Captain Jerry

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2016, 04:21:10 AM »
Wow!  This is going to be a great show.  I am happy to see you undertake the undercarriage parts yourself.  Just one track frame with sprockets and tracks would be a challenge for anyone.  You will surely produce a great model.

Tracks are an area of special interest to me since I spent a fair part of my life in the construction equipment industry, mostly involved with surface mining machines.  The biggest Caterpillar and Komatsu dozers are used in strip mining and the details of track maintenance and repair constitute a a major share of the operating expense for these huge machines.   Draglines and power shovels are also track mounted but they move material by swinging a long boom rather that pushing it around, track wear is less of an expense factor. 

Lombard's early track design  was much more like today's dragline or shovel tracks than they are like modern buldozers.  The track pads or plates of today's dozers do not incorporate a pivot pin.  They are bolted to links which are pinned together to form the track chain.  Lombard's later machines used this link structure but his original machines used pinned pads as you have shown.

There are some details of these pads that do not show up in your plan but may be critical in keeping the track in alignment under the machine.  These details can be seen in some of the photos and on other views of the manual.  I am talking about the four bars on the inside surface of the pad which form guide channels for the track rollers.  These are visible on view 81M of the pad.  There is also a large lug in the center that is engaged by the deep groove on the sprockets (#77 and 76 Lags on the manual page).  The shallow groove in the sprocket engages the roll #89 which is on the pivot pin but the deep groove engages the lug which is located on the narrow part of the pad in the center.

For a lightly loaded model, you can probably ignore the lug but  I think that the guide channels may be important.  It will need a thicker plate to start with the channels milled back to your working dimension.  I am pretty sure that the originals were cast. You will still want the deep grove in the sprocket to avoid contact with the shoe.   I can't help using current terminology for these track parts.  Today, we say pads or shoes instead of lags.

Jerry
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Don't worry about it. try it anyway.

Offline Perry

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Re: Chris' Build of a Lombard Hauler Engine
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2016, 12:55:34 PM »
What a project! I'll be watching this one with great interest, steam engine coupled with chain tracks that so cool!
Regards