3D printer questions

[GordonL]

I just bought a Monoprice 15365 Mini printer and I am running in to a few basic questions.

I am having a problem with the first layer not sticking to the bed and results in a spider web of plastic which gets tangled in later layers. The printer starts by doing a perimeter loop and then starts the base part layer. The original loop is what is getting the head tangled. I am using PLA plastic and running 195° head temp and 60° bed temp. I am not sure whether I should make something hotter, cooler, faster, slower.

One Monoprice specific question. The printer comes with a micro SD card so I bought another card. Ended up with a 32GB since the price is not much more for a 32 vs 8 GB. Contacted customer support and they said that the SD slot would not support more than 4 GB but the printer still does not work. I can load my gcode to the original SD card and it works OK but the other do not work. Any thoughts on the SD card?

I am having a slight problem when loading another filament. There seems to leave a slug of plastic in the head which must be pushed out so the first few inches is the old color. Also there is a problem with getting the new filament to feed into the head. To remove the original filament must be heated in order to get it out of the head.

Any advice and/or a forum where the basic questions have been answered.

Gordon

[zeeprogrammer]

I'm fairly new to this as well and other people will have better and more thoughts. I don't know your printer but here's what I have...

1) Layer not sticking
Make sure the plate is clean of any oils.
Trying changing the plate's temperature (I don't know whether up or down).
On my plate, I laid down painter's blue masking tape. Then I vigorously wiped it with isopropyl alcohol.
There's different kinds of blue masking tape and it makes a different which one.
The amount of wiping also made a difference.
I ended up with trial and error.

2) SD card
I can't say. Sounds like the software in the printer doesn't support a larger memory?

3) Slug of plastic
Are you retracting the filament while hot? If you are, it may still leave a slug.
I don't know if dropping the temperature before retracting would help.
I get a lot of blockages on my system. I have to cut the filament, heat the extruder and pull out what I can, and then ream with a large needle, awl, or paper-clip.

4) Different color filament
Before starting the run, I will have the head up high and manually extrude a length of filament.
(I haven't changed colors yet but that should help clear out the old color.)
It also helps to verify the temperature by looking at the plastic as it comes out. Again, trial and error.

I haven't played with my printer for a while. All this talk (in other threads) is getting me interested again.

I hope this was of some help.

[wagnmkr]

There is a lot of information and help here ...  http://www.soliforum.com/

My machine is still on it's way to me so no personal experience so far.

From the books and online tips I have read for the part not sticking down properly ... Hairspray ... something with heavy duty or high stick in the name. Apparently this is one of the best fixes. Spray it on, let dry, and print away. If the build plate is removable, spray it away from the machine to keep the sticky stuff out of the mechanisms.

The blue painters tape as Zee said. I read that Duck brand worked but others said no.

White pva glue, mixed with water is also supposed to work. Again, brush on, let dry, and print away.

Turn up the heat of the base slightly. Although it says that heat for pla is not required, some say it will help stick things down. What doesn't help much is that all filaments brands are/can be different ... each color can be different.

Not feeding properly ... some manufacturers do not have consistent filament diameters and some colors are different diameters that others. Use calipers to measure and check diameter.

Memory card ... on proprietary software there might be an app on the original card to format a new one. Perhaps the seller would know that.

This is what I have found in order to prepare myself for my machine arriving on Friday.

From what I can tell there is a large trial and error factor to these machines and that you get them working as they should, leave it alone. This seams to be a reason for some having more than one machine.

Also, it seems that some upgrades will be required to got optimum results.

I am starting a binder to keep all sorts of pertinent stuff in.

Tom

[GordonL]

Thanks. At least this is new territory for many of us. When the printer was a $5000 item it was just not in the cards. Now with a $200 printer it can be attainable to more of us.

The sticking problem is mainly in the first few passes. Once it does the pass which seems to draw a perimeter around the piece which does not want to stick it starts laying down a grid and that sticks better as long as the original spider web of the perimeter does not get tangled up in it. I assume that the Cura software is adding this perimeter.

I have already replaced the original yellow masking tape which came on the printer with blue tape. I had not tried cleaning it.

I contacted Monoprice tech support and they did not have any good answers either. They are just selling something made elsewhere so they have not had a lot of experience either. I chatted with the tech for a few minutes about the SD card and he just said I will replace it. I said that I did not buy the card from them. He said he meant that he was going to replace the whole machine.

Hopefully I/we will learn something here. I do not expect the $200 printer to do what the $5000 machine will do.

Another problem is CAD software. I have been using 2D software for the last 20 years so I have to learn a 3D program. I have downloaded 123D by Autodesk. I have drawn a simple part and printed it. That worked OK. I can make a 15 minute sketch is 15 hours.

Gordon

[wagnmkr]

Gordon, at least you have some CAD experience ... at the moment, I am having trouble with a straight line... even with a program.

I too am learning 123 and I am not at the point of getting anything drawn yet. That is not too important just yet as the first couple of projects for me are from Thingyverse. Their files are all ready to go ... just download them, slice them, and print them.

Adding your original question about stick the first line down ... another thing I have been told to do when I get the machine is make sure the bed is level, and make sure the head to plate distance is correct. The head being too far away can cause a lot of problem apparently.

For me, this is mainly a keep the brain active excersize, and maybe make something useful along the way.

Tom

[GordonL]

I have been mainly trying the samples which came with the printer. I now have a plastic cat and a plastic elephant. I am building the Howell v-2 engine and there is a delrin cover over the magnets which hold the hall sensors so that looked like a good place to start. The 123 looks like something which will work for "gee whiz that looks neat" but I am having a problem with precision. If I want to make something, not a standard primitive, 1.234" long x 4.567 wide I am having a problem figuring that out. One thing I learned soon is that in spite of us yanks working in inches the software works in mm. The first time I tried to print the part it was 25.4 x actual size. Change 123 back to mm before you save the STL file.

[zeeprogrammer]

Re: the perimeter line print and the head to plate distance

That's kind of the purpose for the perimeter line print. Gives the system a chance to start, get the first bits of plastic out (which may have crystalized). And gives you a chance to shut down if it looks like it's going to go wrong.

Yes, distance of head to plate is critical. On my system (possibly not yours), you have to make sure the plate is level and square to the head. Much like milling.

If I recall correctly, on my Slic3r program, there's a setting for layer height. But I believe there's also a setting that modifies the first n layers to be slightly thinner causing the head to 'squish' the plastic down a bit to help in adhering to the plate.

But I could be completely full of ABS.

[GordonL]

I did have a problem with the head to table distance and I reset that. When you talk about level, do you mean table level with the head or the whole printer level. It would seem that the whole printer could be a couple of degrees of level as long as the head and the bed are in the same relationship. There is no way to actually level the printer except shimming under the feet and it is actually on rubber feet.

I am finding that actually looking at the gcode helps. A lot of stuff is set in the first 20 lines or so. You can look at the code and modify it with a text editor.

In looking at the cat and the elephant there are a couple of different "bases" to start. There is skirt and raft. Skirt starts the part right on the bed. Raft builds a base before starting the actual part.

Lot of new thing and terms to learn.

[zeeprogrammer]

I did have a problem with the head to table distance and I reset that. When you talk about level, do you mean table level with the head or the whole printer level. It would seem that the whole printer could be a couple of degrees of level as long as the head and the bed are in the same relationship. There is no way to actually level the printer except shimming under the feet and it is actually on rubber feet.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Yes, table level with head. It's the same idea as tramming a mill.
If you move the head to each corner, the distance from head to table must be the same.
For some printers, it's worthwhile to check across the table for bow-ness.

Apologies if I'm telling you what you already know.

[Admiral_dk]

Hi Gordon

Google is your friend, so I googled : micro sd card compatibility issues

First hit tells you a lot you need to know :

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/5-mistakes-avoid-buying-next-microsd-card/

I should point out that there's three main types of Micro SD cards and they are NOT compatible  - read the article !!!!

Hope this will explain / help you.

Best wishes

Per

[jadge]

After some issues with corners pulling away during cooling I'm now pretty blasé about using PLA; I just expect it to work. To assist sticking of the first layer to the baseplate I use glue - Pritt stick in the UK, no idea of the US equivalent. It is widely available in stationers, so nothing fancy. I use a 'brim' around the outside of the part of at least 5mm. I run the nozzle at 220ºC and the baseplate at 75ºC. During printing of the first layer the print speed is reduced and the cooling fans are off.

Andrew

[zeeprogrammer]

Good reminder Admiral_dk! I got burned that way when looking for a card for my camera. That could very well be the problem.

Andrew...'corners pulling away'...yes, yet another hurdle to deal with in 3D printing. As others have said...there is a whole lot to learn.
If you think tweaking a lathe or mill is interesting...a 3D printer can more than satisfy an urge to tweak. 

My experience (and others) seems to be a pretty large learning curve along with a lot of tweaking and fiddling. But once stable, it's a lot of fun to make parts, whether you design your own or download files.

No one should be discouraged.

BTW, I built my printer. A key was making sure everything was 'tight' with little play.
Gordon's is out-of-the-box but it may be worthwhile to check everything.

When I was a kid, I remember a fellow who bought a new car and before driving it, went through it and ensured all the bolts were correctly tightened.

[sshire]

The glue stick that I use is Uhu brand. Got a box of a dozen at Amazon. I've use only ABS so not sure about it working with PLA.

[Tin Falcon]

I just bought a Monoprice 15365 Mini printer and I am running in to a few basic questions.

I am having a problem with the first layer not sticking to the bed and results in a spider web of plastic which gets tangled in later layers. The printer starts by doing a perimeter loop and then starts the base part layer. The original loop is what is getting the head tangled. I am using PLA plastic and running 195° head temp and 60° bed temp. I am not sure whether I should make something hotter, cooler, faster, slower.

First layer issues are common with inexperience operators. I personally print on a glass covered bed just get a plate of glass from   local hardware store or home center. Then treat the glass with either stick glue or my prefered method aquanet hair spray . Then either glue the glass to the bed with hair spray or Use binder clips .

The bed must be trammed. Some say level but since this is a machining forum and that is the correct term I will use it.  set the z zero so the nozzle is about  0.003 In from the bed use a feeler gage or shim stock some have printed dial indicator holder for this  as an alternate method.
So check the distance from the bed plate to the nozzle in the middle and on the 4 corners you will likely have  to jog around a few times. 

Check your first layer height in your slicer you may have to tune it down slightly . Make sure your first layer extrude is around 110-120 % also make sure overlap (in advance settings is 15-20 %)May not hurt to bump the nozzle and bed temp by 5 degrees. Your first layer should be a bit squishy oval.

One Monoprice specific question. The printer comes with a micro SD card so I bought another card. Ended up with a 32GB since the price is not much more for a 32 vs 8 GB. Contacted customer support and they said that the SD slot would not support more than 4 GB but the printer still does not work. I can load my gcode to the original SD card and it works OK but the other do not work. Any thoughts on the SD card?

I generally look for class 10 sd cards as they tend to have faster transfer rates. G code does not take a lot of file space so small  space is fine.
Have not had an issues on my cheap ramps set up.

I am having a slight problem when loading another filament. There seems to leave a slug of plastic in the head which must be pushed out so the first few inches is the old color. Also there is a problem with getting the new filament to feed into the head. To remove the original filament must be heated in order to get it out of the head.

Sounds about par to me. Heat the hot end pull out the old filament And push in the new I tend to cut a point on the end with diagonal cutters. But sometimes it takes a few tries to get the new filament in. And there will need to be a purge to get all the old color out the amount fed will vary from hot end to hot end . Or just start printing for some cool color effect.   

Any advice and/or a forum where the basic questions have been answered.

I think I covered the Basics buyt you may want to join http://www.soliforum.com/
Hope this helps
Tin

[Pete49]

One thing I have noticed is the temperature of the filament. I now only use filament from a specific supplier to avoid the hassles of getting the temps right. I found with PLA the temps vary from 190C to 220C and I find 200C is fine for this filament while other types I have had to 220 to flow nicely. My bed is heated to 60C for PLA and has borosilicate glass and covered with blue masking tape and sprayed several layers or cheap hairspray. That is good for multiple prints. The uhu glue is used rarely nowdays as it was a b##ch to remove the part. Just my take on how mine works your milage may vary
Pete