Author Topic: Question regarding vertical cyl. open crankcase engines  (Read 2336 times)

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Question regarding vertical cyl. open crankcase engines
« on: June 28, 2016, 09:45:58 PM »
I have a question running through the back of my mind that I can't come up with a clear answer for. I have built a number of horizontal cylinder open crank-case i.c. engines, and when the piston is at bottom dead center, the inside of the piston (and consequently the wrist or gudgeon pin) is "right there" available for a squirt of oil from a squirt can. If one chooses to mount an oil reservoir on the top side of the horizontal cylinder, near bottom of stroke, then  a small groove in the side of the piston can be used to pick up some of that flow of oil and guide it to the gudgeon pin for lubrication. How does the wrist/gudgeon pin get lubricated on a vertical cylinder, open crank-case engine?---Brian
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 10:46:30 PM by Brian Rupnow »

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Question regarding vertical cyl. open crankcase engines
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2016, 12:28:12 AM »
Good question Brian. The obvious answer would be to use sealed ball bearings on both ends of the con rod to avoid the need for it, but I will await the collective wisdom of the group for other alternatives. I assume you are looking for a non ball bearing solution.

Bill

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Question regarding vertical cyl. open crankcase engines
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2016, 01:30:10 AM »
Bill--To be honest, thoughts of a ball bearing never even crossed my mind. I was thinking in terms of bushings, as were used on most if not all of the early hit and miss open crank-case horizontal engines. I was just casting about, thinking of a potential future project when this issue crossed my mind. For that matter, I'm not even sure if there were any vertical cylinder open crankshaft engines. I know that I don't remember ever having seen any. A small ball bearing or even needle roller bearing might work. Hmmm---I will have to do some layout work and see----Maximum bore would be 1", with a 3/16" wristpin. Might get tight---
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 01:33:28 AM by Brian Rupnow »

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Question regarding vertical cyl. open crankcase engines
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2016, 02:08:46 AM »
There were/are many open crank case vertical cylinder engines; for starters how about the Pacific Vapor engine under construction on this site right now. Then there is the Union, Frisco Standard, Cavanaugh and Darley, Olds, Bates & Edmonds, Myrick, Stover, Monitor, York, I could go on but these are some that came to mind; there are probably hundreds.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 02:29:48 AM by Dave Otto »

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Question regarding vertical cyl. open crankcase engines
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2016, 02:14:11 AM »
Well on a vertical engine, couldn't you mount the oiler to an elbow fitting and achieve much the same effect as the oiler on horizontals?
Bill

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Question regarding vertical cyl. open crankcase engines
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2016, 02:27:22 AM »
You are correct Bill; most verticals had the oiler mounted just as you say. The Pacific had two beautiful American Lubricator Co. 4 post oilers on their engines. :lolb:  If you go back and look at post 180 of my build you can see how I handled the wrist pin busing lubrication on my engine. There is usually enough oil that migrates down the piston pin hole from the cylinder walls to keep the pin lubed.

On a model there is no reason why a builder could not use oilite sintered bronze for the wrist pin bearing; ball and needle bearings on the small end of a rod are overkill for a model of an antique engine in my opinion.

Some open crank vertical engines still had a small reservoir maintained by the cylinder drip oiler/s that would splash oil back up into the piston; and yes they can be messy.

Dave

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Question regarding vertical cyl. open crankcase engines
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2016, 07:53:18 AM »
Brian if you want to get a bit of oil into your bearing then have an oil groove in teh piston on the same ctr line as the wrist pin. drill right through the wrist pin and then cross drill one side to meet the through hole. A bit of oil will find its way into the groove then down the pin and out to the bearing via the cross drilled hole.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 08:07:08 AM by Jasonb »

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Question regarding vertical cyl. open crankcase engines
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2016, 01:13:35 PM »
I had thought yesterday about putting an oil reservoir with a 90 degree elbow at the base of the cylinder. My only issue with that is that although I can arrange it to line up with the hole in the end of the gudgeon pin is that it never stops dripping oil, even when the piston is at the other end of its stroke. This makes for a bit of a mess.  Dave Otto--I had a look at your build, and it is beautifull. Thanks for suggesting I look at your post 180.--Jason--Thank you for the drawing.-Brian

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Question regarding vertical cyl. open crankcase engines
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2016, 06:15:43 PM »
For what it's worth---You can get a single ball bearing in there, but it is too thin at about 3/16". You can't get two side by side, because then it's too thick. As far as I can tell, no one makes a double row sealed ball bearing in that small (3/16" i.d.) size. From what I learned in school a long, long time ago, ball bearings don't do well in a reciprocating movement which is only a few degrees of movement anyways. Neither do needle rollers. I think that the idea of an Oilite bronze bushing is probably a good one. Oilite (sintered bronze)wouldn't stand up to the load reversals in a real working engine, but for a model they would probably last until the cows come home..

 

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