Author Topic: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine  (Read 16412 times)

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #60 on: August 05, 2016, 03:25:40 PM »
Sorry about the little issues Tony, but you will beat them no doubt. It all goes into the acquired experience column so its all good!!

Bill

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2016, 03:19:20 AM »
Just a quick update on my progress. I'm in the fettle and finish stage and it's kicking my tail feathers. I'm having geometry issues with both the piston and valve assembly. On the piston I can't get a full rotation of the crank without bottoming out the piston on ether the bottom or top cover. It looks like when I soldered  the piston assembly it came out to short. On the valve assembly it looks like I also made the eccentric rod to short. I tried to desolder the pieces so I could re use the ends but I ended up overheating them and partially melting them. :Mad: It's a giant step back but I'm going to get this. The whole reason I made this model was to improve my soldering. Looks like I'm going to get another operunity.

Tony

Sorry to hear things aren't going as well as hoped, Tony. I still haven't tackled the soldering end of things yet, but want to, so any insight you can provide, as you work your way through the learning process, will be appreciated. I'm enjoying watching this build, as I have your others.

Jim
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Offline AOG

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2016, 04:55:54 PM »
Thanks Bill. Jim here's the problems that I'm haveing. In addition to the normal fitting issues that you have at this point in a build (rubs, clearances etc) I am haveing geometry issues with my soldered linkages. They mostly come down to alignment issues. What's happening is that when I solder the parts the end pieces end up slightly twisted or cocked to one side. That throws the geometry off and makes the rod appear to be shorter. On some of the assemblies I was able to adjust it out. Unfortunately on the piston rod there is no adjustment and on the eccentric rod I ran out of threads. In both cases it's a redo. The other big issue is the soldering itself. I still have problems with adding to much solder or overheating the parts. Fundamentally Elmer's engines are tiny. They push my skills to the limit. A double size version would have been a lot easier but I wouldn't have learned as much. For sanity sake I need to step away from this project for a couple of days. This weekend I am going to make a handle for my friend's drill press. The zamak hub broke. This will be my first attempt at broaching a key way so I'm excited. I'll pick this up again next weekend.

Tony

Online mklotz

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2016, 05:54:48 PM »
Tiny parts that need to maintain an alignment should be clamped in place while soldering.  Aluminum is a good choice for clamps since solder won't stick to it; OTOH, it acts as a heat sink so keep the clamp pieces as small as possible.

Whenever possible, minimize the amount of solder used by pounding the solder flat and cutting off tiny paillons.  Coat with flux and stick in place on the fluxed workpiece.  Apply heat to the workpiece a bit away from the joint so as not to blow the paillons away.  When the flow temperature is reached the paillon will melt and disappear into the joint leaving a clean, neat joint.

There's nothing on this engine that requires silver-soldering.  Rather than practicing your silver-soldering skills on such a small project, use silver-bearing solder that melts at a much lower temperature (in the 400-450 degF range).  Practice real silver-soldering on a larger project.

Another thing to consider for tiny joints is solder paste.  Basically, it's solder powder suspended in flux to form a toothpaste consistency product.  No additional flux is required.  Simply apply it to the joint and heat.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 07:05:24 PM by mklotz »
Regards, Marv
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Offline 10KPete

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2016, 06:30:15 PM »
I'm with Marv. Low temp solders are the way to go for that small stuff. I use a 95% tin, 5% silver that melts at 430*F and is strong like bull. Solder paste is the hot ticket for this little stuff. Or even larger!

Pete
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Offline b.lindsey

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #65 on: August 06, 2016, 07:45:44 PM »
Tony,

I have had good lick with this stuff from PMR.
http://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/boiler-accessories/solder-flux/

You may be able to find it at your local welding supply place as well. Its great for small stuff!!

Bill

Offline 10KPete

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #66 on: August 06, 2016, 07:48:42 PM »
That's the stuff I was talking about, Bill. Great stuff. Very strong compared to tin/lead.

Pete
Craftsman, Tinkerer, Curious Person.
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SB 10K lathe, Benchmaster mill. And stuff.

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #67 on: August 06, 2016, 09:08:28 PM »
Tony,

I have had good lick with this stuff from PMR.
http://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/boiler-accessories/solder-flux/

You may be able to find it at your local welding supply place as well. Its great for small stuff!!

Bill

Bill, I ordered some of this when I ordered my PMR #2 kit. I still haven't used it yet. Glad to know it'll work for most anything I may do in the near future. Do you use Marv's technique, laying the solder in place and then applying the heat away from the solder?

Is this the same solder you used on your "Vickie" or did you use regular silver solder in places?

Thanks, Jim
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"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Online mklotz

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #68 on: August 06, 2016, 09:11:14 PM »
Note that in the PMR ad Bill pointed to in his post above, it states:

"This is the solder we provide in our model boiler kits."

I would hasten to point out that in their kits the solder is used only for sealing, not for mechanical joins.  The boiler joints are all riveted and, after riveting, the solder is used to seal the joint.

If solder is used for mechanical joining in boilers, true silver soldering is essential.

They list the melting temperature as 430 degF.  That is the boiling temperature of water at 350 psi.  Now, none of us are likely to build a boiler operating at that pressure but there's a warning here.  Always check the melting temperature of the solder you use against the boiling water temperature at the maximum pressure for the boiler.

Boiling temperature versus pressure charts are available here...

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-point-water-d_926.html
Regards, Marv
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Offline b.lindsey

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #69 on: August 07, 2016, 12:36:14 AM »
Jim, yes I did use it primarily on the fuel tank. There wasn't much soldering on the engine itself as I recall. I have also used it on the P&W built, also mainly for the cooling/gas tank column. It doesn't take much so the kit from PMR lasts a long time on small stuff.

Bill

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #70 on: August 07, 2016, 01:28:53 AM »
Harris also makes the Stay-Clean flux in paste form which I prefer over the liquid. It is easier to apply and stays where you put it.

http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Products/Alloys/Soldering/Fluxes/Stay-Clean-Paste-Flux.aspx

Dave

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #71 on: August 07, 2016, 03:06:03 AM »
Thanks everyone for the soldering info. I'll add this to my ever growing file on soldering equipment, solders and fluxes, techniques.

Jim
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Sherline 5400 Mill
"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline AOG

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Re: AOG's version of Elmer's beam engine
« Reply #72 on: August 13, 2016, 11:09:03 PM »
Well she's done. I redid the parts and they came out good enough for government work. I had quite a time getting the travel set correctly but timing the valve was easy. The valve design is very forgiving in that respect. Final pics and a video can be found here:

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,6330.msg129384/topicseen.html#new

Till next time

Tony

 

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