Author Topic: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine  (Read 41645 times)

Offline bruedney

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2016, 03:46:23 AM »
I am a bit like Chris - wow!!!

How strong is the side wall of that tube?

Doesn't it still needing to contend with a seal etc at the cylinder head? 0.2mm thick does not seem much.

Just wondering if you are willing to share your full drawings once you have completed this awesome project. I for one would be interested.

 :NotWorthy:

Bruce
‘Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several thousand things that won’t work.’ — Thomas Alva Edison

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2016, 11:29:54 AM »
What kind of lathe is it? How old?
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
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Offline Captain Jerry

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2016, 01:11:53 PM »
Wow.  :NotWorthy:   :popcorn:

I wonder how many times Ericsson remade his full size ones till he got it to work?

I am taking "Wow" as a positive.  Ericsson was a lot better at getting things done.  He took the original Monitor from contract award to delivery in about 100 days and that includes the ship.  Its a good thing the Confederates aren't harassing my my navy with their ironclad "Merrimac"


How strong is the side wall of that tube?

Doesn't it still needing to contend with a seal etc at the cylinder head? 0.2mm thick does not seem much.

Just wondering if you are willing to share your full drawings once you have completed this awesome project. I for one would be interested.

 :NotWorthy:

Bruce

I think it is strong enough. I try not to drop it or drop things on it but other than that, I handle it like any other part.

There will be a seal at the head and its design is still undecided but I don't think it will impose any load that the trunk can't handle.  The trunk does not have to contend with any of the crank load.  That load is handled by the piston rod and transferred directly to the piston head.

I am more than happy to share the details of the design and assuming that this produces a working model. I will turn my attention to putting together a set of plans.  I use an old version of Alibre' to design and by the time I get to the shop, the design is pretty well in memory and I need only a few critical dimensions to work with.  The last formal drafting class that I had was almost sixty years ago and it spent the first few sessions learning how to sharpen a pencil correctly so don't expect anything up to standard practice.

What kind of lathe is it? How old?

My lathe is a very old, second hand, HF 9x20.   I replaced the spindle bearings a few years ago but other than a QC tool post and aftermarket 4 bolt compound bracket have not done much but keep it in adjustment.

Jerry
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There are things that you can do and some things you can't do. Don't worry about it. try it anyway.

Offline crueby

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2016, 01:15:27 PM »
Wow.  :NotWorthy:   :popcorn:

I wonder how many times Ericsson remade his full size ones till he got it to work?

I am taking "Wow" as a positive. 

It was absolutely meant as a positive!

Offline Captain Jerry

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2016, 02:58:28 AM »
I have been quiet for a few days.  Sometimes I have to do regular stuff, but today I got back to the shop and turned out some base frame components.  They are a little rough but I know what it takes to make them look better... files, sand paper and fiddling.  There are only a few parts that will be visible, the front frame, where the valve linkage and eccentrics will be and the back frame where the output shaft will be.

The back frame is more interesting at this point because it has a hump in the middle, to provide more support for the output shaft.  It will not be just a flat plate, it is a flanged beam and that took a little time with end mills, flycutters and boring head.  It will get some more attention to remove the marks.





The inner beams will also be flanged and the fore and aft beams will be profiled to nestle the cylinder.  The pair of 123 blocks indicate the size and position of the cylinder.



Please excuse the picture size.  I forgot to reduce them. 

Jerry
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 03:13:21 AM by Captain Jerry »
NOTARY SOJAK

There are things that you can do and some things you can't do. Don't worry about it. try it anyway.

Offline crueby

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2016, 04:50:56 AM »
Nice start! The flanges will make for great detail. From reading tool marks, I would guess you used the boring head to do the arched section?

For plans, are you relying on pictures of the original and your own drawings, or do you have plans from somewhere?

Following along with great interest...   :popcorn:

Offline Captain Jerry

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2016, 01:11:28 PM »
Good guess, Chris.  The boring head can be used like a flycutter in a lot of places and it is easily sharpened and adjusted to radius accurately.  The other tool marks are from conventional end mills.  I would have used a flycutter which gives a better surface finish but the tight corner radius where the top flange meets the bearing boss at the ends forced me to use an end mill.

The only reference that I have for this project is the model by Rich Carlstadt that is shown on his website and the internet.  If there are any detailed plans for it, I haven't found them.  I am developing my own plans, based on that model, and simplified to suit my equipment and ability.  Most of the detail is subject to change as I get into it.  About the only thing that is firm is the geometry and relationship of the linkage.

I still have some serious challenges ahead with the cylinder and the steam passages to the central common head.  Material for the cylinder body is due to arrive on Monday so I still have a few days to think about it.  I will post some drawings of the cylinder later today.

Jerry
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There are things that you can do and some things you can't do. Don't worry about it. try it anyway.

Offline crueby

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2016, 04:23:08 PM »
Neat. I saw some references in the past about Carlstdt writing a book about the engine and the model, hope he does someday!

Offline Captain Jerry

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2016, 10:40:46 PM »
As promised, here is a 3D PDF of the engine with a section through the cylinder showing the steam passages.


Gotta run, late for dinner out.  Peruvian at a local place that has become a favorite. 

Margarittas Grande'
NOTARY SOJAK

There are things that you can do and some things you can't do. Don't worry about it. try it anyway.

Offline Captain Jerry

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2016, 02:23:50 AM »
I seem to take a lot of time to make a single part, but here it is.  It is the thrust box and it is bolted to the face of the rear frame.  In addition to carrying a shaft bearing, it also carries a thrust bearing to absorb any longitudinal thrust.  The shaft has a collar that bears on the thrust bearing,  It also has a 6 bolt collar to join it to the prop shaft.  I don't have the full plans for the USS Monitor but I believe that there would be a prop shaft thrust box to transfer the prop thrust to the ship's frame instead of having it pass through the engine mount.



And here it is in a full frame shot.



The shaft in the above picture is not the crankshaft.  It is just an alignment tool.  In the final assembly, the crankshaft will only be carried by the bearing in the rear frame member and the bearing in the thrust box.   The crankshaft is of the single web type with a stub journal pin. It does not continue through the mid plate, under the cylinder and carry the eccentrics on the front plate.  The eccentric shaft is entirely separate and can be remove independently of the crankshaft, or, as is more likely, the crankshaft or the crankshaft bearings could be replaced without disturbing the valve linkage.

One more picture, just because I think it is a good picture and I am learning to use my new camera better.



On a different topic, I want to thank Chris, for his analysis of the tool marks in the face of the rear frame, a few days ago.  It made me stop and do the same.  The marks were terrible.  They should not be that bad so I did a few test cut on some scrap, changing speeds, feeds, and depth of cut. I also tried a few other end mills with only slightly better results.  Then the fog lifted and I re-adjusted the mill table gibs.   I make it a firm practice to lock the X if I'm cutting on the Y and lock the Y if I'm cutting on the X.  I also keep a little drag on the lock of the direction that I am cutting, particularly if climb cutting to eliminate backlash.  I should also make it a practice to check and adjust more often.  By using the lock drag, I had masked the really sloppy condition of the adjustment.  So. after a complete readjustment, I took another .005" DOC with a single edge 3/16" endmill and the results were dramatically improved.  It took only a few minutes with file, scraper and, paper to get the finish that you see in these pictures.

Why a single edge end mill?  Because that is the only kind that I can sharpen.  Sharp is way better than not really sharp.

Jerry
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There are things that you can do and some things you can't do. Don't worry about it. try it anyway.

Offline crueby

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2016, 02:42:14 AM »
Off to a great start!  Gotta go get more peanuts (have enough popcorn, like to alternate  on good movies like this one).  :popcorn:

Offline Captain Jerry

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2016, 02:22:44 AM »
UPS left me a package late Monday.  I finally got to it on Tuesday morning, but ll I got done was to take a picture.



An aluminum bar 2.125" OD and a cast iron bar 1.125" OD, both 4" long.  This is a two cylinder engine but the are end to end in the same cylinder with a common head between them.  I'm not sure how Erricson did it but the only way that I could come up with to position the common head is to bore the aluminum cylinder for a cast iron liner and sandwich a cast iron disk in the center, between two short sections of cast iron liner.  It is just barely possible, with my equipment to do this.


Before boring the aluminum cylinder for the liner, I parted of two 1/4" slices that will become the external cylinder heads.  Parting was not hard at all, except that I  could not find any WD-40 for lube.  The best I could do was to raid the household cleaning supplies for a can of Johnson's EndDust.  Great stuff, works better than WD-40 and leaves the shop smelling like a breath of Spring.

My (Rat's, what do you call that three fingered thingy) has a capacity of up to 2" but I have never used it for anything that big.  There was some interference with  the casting that had to be ground off to get it to clear 2" but after that it was a piece of cake,





Two slices, done slowly and then it was on to the boring.



The biggest drill bit I have is 3/4" so it is a long way to 1.25" with the boring bar.

After that, it was time to clean up the CI bar, and part off a 1/4" slice for the center head.  Then two more 1/8" slices for external heads.



The CI was much easier to part than the Aluminum and on fresh aroma of EndDust.



Then bore the CI bar to 1" ID and go  have a beer and  feed the dogs.  Tomorrow is another good shop day.

Today's product.




Jerry
                                                                                                                                                                 
NOTARY SOJAK

There are things that you can do and some things you can't do. Don't worry about it. try it anyway.

Offline crueby

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2016, 02:27:09 AM »
3 fingered thingy = steady rest!

And Endust as lubricant? Unique!  I would have grabbed a candle and waxed it.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2016, 02:30:42 AM »
Love it! :lolb:
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline Captain Jerry

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Re: Monitor, A Half Trunk Vibrating Lever Back Acting Engine
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2016, 02:39:41 AM »
3 fingered thingy = steady rest!

And Endust as lubricant? Unique!  I would have grabbed a candle and waxed it.

Right, steady rest.

Don't laugh too hard, Zee.  After about 15 years of retirement, some vocabulary difficulties start to show up.


This family shot was supposed to show up in the last post.




Jerry
NOTARY SOJAK

There are things that you can do and some things you can't do. Don't worry about it. try it anyway.

 

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