Unique Solenoid Engine - Curved Spoke Flywheel

[zeeprogrammer]

A base might be good. 

You don't want to carry that vise around right? You need it for the next build. 

Neat action.

[Don1966]

Looking good Chuck and hope to see it in it's glory soon..........

Don

[cfellows]

Well, guys, turns out the solenoids just don't have enough gumption to run this engine.  Got it all wired up and hooked it up to my variable DC power supply and even at 40 volts, the engine wouldn't keep running.  The solenoids are rated at 24 volts and the supplied amps were high enough to heat up the solenoids pretty quickly, but no go.  I verified that the timing was right and the solenoids were contacting at the right time, but it just wouldn't work.  So, on to the next project...

Chuck

[b.lindsey]

That is a real shame Chuck. Such an interesting design too. Any chance a larger flywheel would help even if you had to turn it over to get it started?

Bill

[CHP]

Chuck
 I would try using 4 big  electrolytic
capacitors across each engine wiring
and maybe changing the timing on your rod so they would
not push and pull at 90 degree but something like 60 or 120.
like a self start engine

this video explain what i mean  by timing

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vT5Gx0HnYM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vT5Gx0HnYM</a>

my 2 cents

[BillTodd]

Chuck,

I wonder if your magnetic fields are collapsing fast enough? i.e. when  the solenoid is switched off, it may well retain considerable magnetic flux  for a time which will act against the next solenoid ,and so on round the cycle.

The way to make the field collapse fast, is to ensure the current stops when the switch opens, so no suppressor caps or protection diodes (unfortunately this means high voltage flyback and often sparks!)

It may be possible to reverse the current briefly at the end of the stroke, to cancel any flux retained in the solenoid's armature.

Bill

[Don1966]

Chuck I think you would be better off using a pulling solenoid instead of a push solenoid more power. With the pull solenoid you may have to make an adjustment to have the solenoid armature go into the solenoid some to get the power you need.
The push type should have a magnet in it and may be generating voltage on the return stroke so like Bill said, no swamping diodes across the coils and insure the switch goes fully open.

Don

[cfellows]

Thanks, all for the suggestions.  The solenoids being used are actually pull solenoids with a thin, brass rod going out the other end that pushes.  There isn't any magnet involved, the plunger is just made of steel.  I think the solenoids are just too small.

I'm using single pole, double throw switches, so each solenoid is energized for 180 degrees.  I can't change that.  I could retard the timing but that would mean the solenoids are energized past bottom dead center.

I really don't want to do anything more complicated with this engine that involves electronics.  I don't think it  will do any good.  So, I'll just put it on the shelf and look at it.  At this point, I'm kind of thinking about converting it to compressed air...

Chuck

[crueby]

Even if you don't figure out the solenoids, you got a great flywheel out of the project!

[Don1966]

Chuck have you tried setting the armature about a 1/4 of the way in so the solenoid can get more pull power? The solenoids greatest power is when the armature is full engaged. Placing the armature core partially into it would give it more strength.

Don

[PStechPaul]

It's unfortunate that you could not get this to work after putting so much time and effort into it. I like CHP's solenoid engine, but it does use a fair bit of electronics, which you want to avoid. A few suggestions if you'd like to analyze your problems and perhaps give it another go.

1. Measure the force of the solenoid at various positions of the armature in the coil.

2. See how much force is required to turn the mechanism throughout its range of motion

3. Make sure the switches you are using do not take too much force to operate.

4. As Bill Todd mentioned, make sure the magnetic field collapses quickly and has some sort of snubber to absorb the stored inductive energy and avoid sparking of the switch contacts. There is a current thread on HSM about an automotive relay and much discussion of the effects of inductance and flyback diodes and other devices to deal with the energy and collapse the field faster. I also found a very detailed discussion of the properties and use of commutating flyback diodes for coils and some alternatives.
http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/diode_turn-on_time.htm

I find it a bit hard to visualize just how the timing works. Perhaps you can make another short video showing the final build at this point and walking it through the quadrants of operation, as well as showing the design and operation of the switches.

Also, it might be possible to use a system like CHP has to make each solenoid double acting, pushing and pulling as the armature moves through the center of the coil.

[Zephyrin]

As said above, the plunger has to be in soft iron, owing to its non permanent magnetic properties, instead of steel.
at the point you are, the simplest way to transform steel into plain iron, is to burn all the carbon content of the plungers by a prolonged bright red heating.
I know that overcooking expensive carbon tool steel transforms it into useless iron bit...
the plungers will leave this treatment awful and rusted, but their magnetic properties should be improved.
whatever the issue, a nice thread to follow, as usual, thanks to share !