Unique Solenoid Engine - Curved Spoke Flywheel

[cfellows]

Thanks, folks, for the kind words.

Here is an unfinished, teaser drawing of the solenoid engine I'm designing. 



I'm trying to learn Fusion360.  It's a very powerful CAD program and and somewhat different in it's approach, so it's bit of a steep learning curve.  As you  can see, the flywheel in  the drawing is a standard straight spoked version.  Haven't quite mastered Fusion360 enough to draw the curved spoke version.

The engine will bear a strong resemblance to the Monitor steam engine in it's layout and linkage motion.  I got the inspiration from Zee's thread.  Still a ways away from making parts, but I'm having fun with the design and Fusion360.

Chuck

[PStechPaul]

I saw the Monitor steam engine thread by zeeprogrammer and I wonder how that design will be implemented with solenoids as you show. The engines I have seen use two opposed pistons and cylinders driving a rocking arm at each end, and the other end of the rocker arms each have two sets of connecting rods, one to the power crankshaft, and the others to the control valves. I realize the illustration is a "teaser" and much detail is forthcoming, but I cannot see how all four solenoids can be used for power.
 
My other concern is that, unlike steam, which has a constant linear thrust, the solenoid's pull increases exponentially as the plunger travels from its maximum distance to the minimum distance between the magnetic pole faces. According to what I found, the force at 5 mm might be 0.75 N, and at 1 mm it is ten times that, or 7.5 N. It might be possible to design the rocker so that the solenoid is first energized with the rocker arm at right angle to the force, for maximum mechanical advantage, and then be at a smaller angle when the force is greatest.
 
It might also be possible to have a "double acting" solenoid that pulls in either direction toward its center, and that may have a more linear relationship, but probably not as much maximum force. A permanent magnet "piston" might allow the current in the solenoid to be reversed to act in a pushing as well as pulling motion.
 
It will be interesting to see what you finally come up with. And nice work on the curved spoke flywheel! But using CNC is cheating, just a bit... 

[sshire]

Cheating? I know Paul was being a bit tongue-in-cheek but it's really just another way to go about it. Disclaimer: I do not have any CNC but..
I've actually been thinking philosophically about CNC and what we do.
With a few exceptions, my engines have been single cylinder because I really dislike making the same part two or three, or eight times. Not that I haven't made the same part more than once on a single cylinder engine
The two side frames on the Coventry engine (yes, I'm still building it.) are a perfect example of why CNC is a good idea. On the other hand, figuring out how to hold the plates, the order of operations, etc. are one of my favorite parts. Mental exercise and all that.
Doing a simple part seems to actually be more work and time to do in CNC than manually (what with making the drawing, checking the G-code, and then the actual machining.)
My thinking has come around to CNC for some things,along with manual machining for others,being the best of both.
On one hand, look at George Britnell's magnificent work, all manual machining.
On the other hand, if I would ever contemplate building one of Lee Hodgson's million cylinder radial engines....

[RonGinger]

I don't see CNC as  only for multiple parts. Take a simple connecting rod- two round ends with a straight link between. With CNC I can drill the holes and mount the stock with a couple bolts, then run the mill around in one pass. Manually that is at least two rotary table setups and then stopping the rotary cut exactly at the right point. Even more difficult with tangents instead of a parallel link.

Also with CNC I can make a nice chamfer pass all around and leave a nice clean edge.

I must admit that for me CNC has become the hobby- I spend more time tinkering with my machines, improving the control interface, writing wizards than I do making models. But I have just finished a Stuart beam that will be with me at Cabin Fever.

CNC does not take away any of the machinist skills of set up, selecting tools, selecting feed rates, etc. If anything it is more difficult with CNC because you must think about those details in the setup- once you press the GO button its to late to realize your feed rate is to high, or your first pass will go right through a hold down clamp. CNC is the best tool breaker I've ever had 

[tvoght]

This will be really interesting, Chuck. I can't help but be reminded of reading Jules Verne's Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea as a kid.

Here's a brief but enticing excerpt, set in the engine room of Captain Nemo's submarine Nautilus:

Meanwhile I examined the Nautilus's engine with a fascination easy to imagine.

"You observe," Captain Nemo told me, "that I use Bunsen cells, not Ruhmkorff cells. The latter would be ineffectual. One uses fewer Bunsen cells, but they're big and strong, and experience has proven their superiority. The electricity generated here makes its way to the stern, where electromagnets of huge size activate a special system of levers and gears that transmit movement to the propeller's shaft. The latter has a diameter of 6 meters, a pitch of 7.5 meters, and can do up to 120 revolutions per minute."

It's easy to imagine Nemo using the back-acting configuration of the Monitor engine in his ship to save space, and maybe fun to make a romantic comparison between Nemo and the real-life genius John Ericsson.

--Tim

[cfellows]

I saw the Monitor steam engine thread by zeeprogrammer and I wonder how that design will be implemented with solenoids as you show. The engines I have seen use two opposed pistons and cylinders driving a rocking arm at each end, and the other end of the rocker arms each have two sets of connecting rods, one to the power crankshaft, and the others to the control valves. I realize the illustration is a "teaser" and much detail is forthcoming, but I cannot see how all four solenoids can be used for power.
 
My other concern is that, unlike steam, which has a constant linear thrust, the solenoid's pull increases exponentially as the plunger travels from its maximum distance to the minimum distance between the magnetic pole faces. According to what I found, the force at 5 mm might be 0.75 N, and at 1 mm it is ten times that, or 7.5 N. It might be possible to design the rocker so that the solenoid is first energized with the rocker arm at right angle to the force, for maximum mechanical advantage, and then be at a smaller angle when the force is greatest.
 
It might also be possible to have a "double acting" solenoid that pulls in either direction toward its center, and that may have a more linear relationship, but probably not as much maximum force. A permanent magnet "piston" might allow the current in the solenoid to be reversed to act in a pushing as well as pulling motion.
 
It will be interesting to see what you finally come up with. And nice work on the curved spoke flywheel! But using CNC is cheating, just a bit... 

If you look at the lever that connects to the piston rod on the moniter engine and imagine an opposing lever coming out the bottom of the rocker shaft and connecting to a second piston rod/cylinder below the top one, you get an alternating pull action which will be perfect for the solenoid adaptation.  I'm also designing the levers so I get about a 4:1 distance ratio at the crankshaft  The solenoid plunger will only travel about 1/8" but my crankshaft throw will be 1/2".  It won't have a lot of power, but should be pleasing to watch it run and capable of decent speed.

Many in the metal working hobby regard CNC as cheating a bit, but as Ron Ginger said, the CNC is part of my hobby.  Getting the milling machine to do what I want through drawings, CAM, and setup is a lot of fun.  And, I have to admit, that patience is not one of my virtues.  If I tried to make the curved spoke flywheel manually with fixtures, I would ruin 2 or 3 blanks in the process and would likely still wind up with imperfections.  Without the CNC mill, I would never have attempted the flywheel.

I do recall the days before I had a CNC mill and it would turn me off when I came across a project I liked that depended on CNC.  But now that I've converted my mill/drill, it's opened up a whole new world of possibilities and, as I said, it's a lot of fun.

[Don1966]

Cool Chuck go for it..........

Don

[zeeprogrammer]

It's an interesting project. I'm watching.

As for CNC...oh cut it out everyone. 
There's times to do a calculation on paper. There's times a calculator comes in handy.
Poo.
Either way you have to learn/do machining.

[PStechPaul]

Yeah, I'm just jealous because I don't have CNC. But I bought two Powerball tickets, so, maybe... 

[cfellows]

Yeah, I'm just jealous because I don't have CNC. But I bought two Powerball tickets, so, maybe... 

I was jealous, too, for a long time.  I finally bit the bullet and converted my Enco (Rong Fu) mill drill to CNC a couple of years ago.  The total cost of the conversion, including steppers, Gecko G540 controller, ball screws, used desktop computer, CamBam License, Mach3 License, and miscellaneous was around $1000.  As I recall, I sold one of my engines on Ebay to finance the conversion.

I suspect the conversion could be done for closer to $500 or maybe less if you go with Fusion360 (Free Cad / CAM) and an Arduino GRBL or TinyG software solution or Linux CNC.  I happen to like Mach3 and find it to be extremely reliable but the others may be equally reliable.

Chuck

[cfellows]

Been doing a little work on the solenoid engine.





The aluminum frame is 1.75" high x 3" wide x 1" deep.  These solenoids are pusher types rather than pull type.  I made the clevices attached to the outer ends of the plungers out of 3/16" square steel rod.

Chuck

[Roger B]

Looks to be a fun project, I'm following along 

[crueby]

Give it some legs and a battery, it might be able to walk around the room....

Interesting idea, watching along here too.   

[Brian]

Mmmm.
Cant wait to see the linkage. and control gear.

Brian---H

[Don1966]

Chuck still waiting for more progress on this engine and your giving Jo a run of competition in multitasking.
  looking great so far buddy........


 

Don