Author Topic: Monitor Steam Engine  (Read 156100 times)

Online mklotz

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #525 on: February 13, 2016, 02:02:24 PM »
Those spring-loaded tap guides eat up a lot of Z axis room.  OK on larger machines but not on Sherline-sized equipment or round column mill-drills.
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Online Jasonb

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #526 on: February 13, 2016, 04:21:12 PM »
I don't bother with a sprung guide, can't see whats wrong with one hand on the quill lever and the other turning the tap, also more rigid.

Mostly I use a bit of round bar that has a 60deg point on one end and a ctr drilled hole in the other, slip that in the drill chuck or collet whatever is being used at the time. If the tap has a ctr hole then I use the point in that, if its centreless ground the end fits the drilled hole.

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #527 on: February 13, 2016, 04:52:49 PM »
Those spring-loaded tap guides eat up a lot of Z axis room.  OK on larger machines but not on Sherline-sized equipment or round column mill-drills.

Good point for mills. I was mainly thinking of using it on the lathe. Sorry for my unclarity.

I don't bother with a sprung guide, can't see whats wrong with one hand on the quill lever and the other turning the tap, also more rigid.

Yep. But I've converted my mill to CNC so the quill won't move on its own. Before that the quill (or tail stock) would freely follow the tap into the work once started. I did find that larger taps would slip in the drill chuck after going in a little ways.

So many options. :-)

Thanks.

Hugh
Hugh

Offline Johnmcc69

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #528 on: February 13, 2016, 08:05:41 PM »
Certainly not ideal, but years ago when I worked in a tool room/machine shop, I worked with someone who made a little "Tapping Block" to start small taps. It was just a block of steel about 1" thick with different holes drilled in it to clear the O.D. of the taps. It acts as a kind of guide bushing for the tap to start. Hold the block over the work piece, start the tap straight, & let the block guide the O.D. of the tap.

 Like I said, not ideal, but easier than trying to start by just "eyeballing" it.

 John

Offline 90LX_Notch

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #529 on: February 13, 2016, 08:53:49 PM »
I'm with Jason.  That's how I do it in the mill, drillpress and lathe.  With the lathe, I turn the chuck by hand and let the tap handle rest against the compound while turning the tailstock feed.   I use Starrett model 91 wrenches.

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Offline sshire

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #530 on: February 13, 2016, 08:55:41 PM »
Spiral point taps push the chip ahead of the tap. Useful for through holes.
Spiral flute taps pull the chip out of the hole behind the tap. For blind holes (although could be used for through holes as well)
Form taps, which require a smaller tap drill size, make no chips. They press (form) the thread. These threads are stronger than taps which cut the thread.
Tap breakage is generally caused by the tap not making a straight entrance into the hole or chip binding. (Or, a too small hole.)
Assuming the tap is in a holder in the mill or lathe, hence correct hole entry geometry, and there are no chips to bind, and a lubricant is used, form taps are far less likely to break.
That is my .02.
Best,
Stan

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #531 on: February 14, 2016, 01:42:30 AM »
Certainly not ideal, but years ago when I worked in a tool room/machine shop, I worked with someone who made a little "Tapping Block" to start small taps. It was just a block of steel about 1" thick with different holes drilled in it to clear the O.D. of the taps. It acts as a kind of guide bushing for the tap to start. Hold the block over the work piece, start the tap straight, & let the block guide the O.D. of the tap.

 Like I said, not ideal, but easier than trying to start by just "eyeballing" it.

 John

Not a thing wrong with using a tapping block; I use one at work and the home shop. All the guys in the shop also use them.  Little machine shop sells a nice US made one, and it is also the one that I have.

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2571&category=-561984047

Dave

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #532 on: February 14, 2016, 01:51:26 AM »
Those spring-loaded tap guides eat up a lot of Z axis room.  OK on larger machines but not on Sherline-sized equipment or round column mill-drills.

Good point for mills. I was mainly thinking of using it on the lathe. Sorry for my unclarity.

I don't bother with a sprung guide, can't see whats wrong with one hand on the quill lever and the other turning the tap, also more rigid.

Yep. But I've converted my mill to CNC so the quill won't move on its own. Before that the quill (or tail stock) would freely follow the tap into the work once started. I did find that larger taps would slip in the drill chuck after going in a little ways.

So many options. :-)

Thanks.

Hugh

I'm the same boat as Hugh; I used to power tap quite a bit, or as Jason does just put a center in the collet and keep pressure on the tap with the quill. After I added the quill drive to my CNC mill these things became not so easy (always trade offs). So now I either use the tapping block off line, or have the mill stop centered over the hole and use the spring loaded tap guide. 

My machine at work is capable of rigid tapping which I use often; but if if it is only a few holes I will just tap them by hand using the block.

Dave

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #533 on: February 14, 2016, 10:40:45 PM »
Good information on taps/drivers/holders.
Thanks for popping in.

No progress on the Monitor.

I've been down with a cold (from Doc I think  ;D ) for a few days.
Just laying around doing some drawing for the next engine...once the Monitor is completed of course.

T surprised me with waffles and sausages for Valentine's day. Normally we don't celebrate such things.
We're in such a habit of the old/poor days when we couldn't afford such things.

Hm...maybe SHE wanted waffles and sausages...and my being around meant she had to share.
Nah.
Even if that were the case...she was thoughtful to make enough for both of us.  ;D
(With her homemade raspberry jam!!!)
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Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #534 on: February 16, 2016, 11:11:03 PM »
A nut question...

When dealing with nuts that go onto manifolds or stems (i.e. a stem nut)...does one chamfer one side or both sides?
Is it a matter of taste or tradition?

Examples on the Monitor would include the piston and valve glands. Or the nuts used to attach the tubing.

Thanks.
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Offline kvom

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #535 on: February 16, 2016, 11:17:27 PM »
I don't bother with a sprung guide, can't see whats wrong with one hand on the quill lever and the other turning the tap, also more rigid.

That's my process on the mill with small taps.  Larger taps I use the guide.  I also use spring guide on lathe tapping.

Online crueby

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #536 on: February 16, 2016, 11:38:04 PM »
A nut question...

When dealing with nuts that go onto manifolds or stems (i.e. a stem nut)...does one chamfer one side or both sides?
Is it a matter of taste or tradition?

Examples on the Monitor would include the piston and valve glands. Or the nuts used to attach the tubing.

Thanks.
On the big engines I've looked at, they beveled the side against the plate, so the corners of the nut would not dig in. On most modern nuts they have gone to bevelling both.

No work on mine either today, been out multiple times clearing the driveway with the latest storm. Sounds like PA got hit too.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #537 on: February 16, 2016, 11:44:58 PM »
No work on mine either today, been out multiple times clearing the driveway with the latest storm. Sounds like PA got hit too.

Thanks Chris.

We got lucky here. Couple of inches yesterday. Was hazardous ice conditions early this morning but it turned warmish (45 degrees +) and by the time I went to work it was mostly slush. All I had to do was clear the walkway to the house. We were expecting a contractor.

Felt quite balmy after this past weekend. I sorely wanted to wear my Hawaiian shirt to work.  ;D
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Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #538 on: February 17, 2016, 12:44:31 AM »
Did someone say nuts!

I'm sure that you will get many different ideas; but my opinion based on working on and around antique engines for many years, is only one side gets a bevel. Standard practice says the bevel should be ~14 degrees; I use 20 on the model size nuts. The other end of the nut gets the hex turned until it just starts to cut a fill circle. On the model size nuts I make this feature .005 to .01 thick. Notice in the picture how the hex is above the surface of the head. The nuts and bolts on antique engines are also (high crown) which means the hex is thicker than modern hardware.

This is a good reference if you are going to create your own hardware.

http://www.americanmodeleng.com/id41.html

Not sure about steam engines but on many of the early gas engines the ends of the studs are finished with a very shallow dome.


Dave
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 12:50:32 AM by Dave Otto »

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #539 on: February 17, 2016, 01:05:12 AM »
Thanks Dave.
Mighty good looking nuts.

Those are holding the cylinder cover and look great! I may not do that for this engine...but there's an engine on my list where that would be the thing to do.
Thanks for the link!

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