Author Topic: Monitor Steam Engine  (Read 160085 times)

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2015, 08:05:08 PM »
Thanks Achim.

Does anyone know what the brass bit is underneath (seen from behind)? A lubricator? But it seems to have a handwheel (seen from the front).

It seems there is some wiring also. I would suppose a small e-motor to run the engine by a friction roller ?
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2015, 01:32:08 AM »
I think I see what you mean Achim. Hard to tell.
The 'tubing' could be air or a wire cable I suppose.
Still doesn't explain the hand wheel (which isn't turning).

Well now the time is going to get short for a bit.
Got to visit my folks...Dad turned 89 today. Still bowls with Mom.
Then Christmas.
Then our 40th anniversary (I really can't believe that.)
Then New Year.

Goes so fast.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2015, 02:18:26 AM »
Vince,

I'm thinking the metric drawings are, if not accurate, more accurate than the imperial.
I suspect some typos occurred when transferring from metric to imperial.

For example, part #25 (Valve Rod Gland) is given as 0.625. But this is the same width as the steam chest and will collide with the cylinder. I checked the metric and it's listed as 13mm which is closer to 0.5". Part #24 was closer. 18mm which is about 0.71" and is close to the 0.75" called out in the imperial drawing.

If anyone is doing this in imperial, I strongly suggest using the metric as a check.

I sure hope Julius doesn't get upset with me. I can't describe how happy I am to get the plans, and to pore over and study them. And I'm learning things.

I'm currently making a materials list so I can figure out what I need to order.

Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
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Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2015, 02:31:26 AM »
Naturally I have a dream of this going into a boat someday. Probably won't happen. But I dream which is always enjoyable.
I've been thinking about Achim's thought that a friction roller driven by an electric motor is being used.
That would free up the need for air/steam and make it easier to show off demonstrate.
Could easily be hidden. Hm..... :thinking:

Anyway...see you all in a few days.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2015, 10:00:21 PM »
Made some parts! Simple ones...but ones.  :cartwheel:
These are the rocker shafts. One for each side.
Still have to drill two holes in each for dowel pins.
That will be done on the mill. But I need to figure out how to do it so that the holes line up with the parts that also get pinned.

Not a great job. This engine is bigger than I thought and my tail stock ram doesn't have that much travel.
Stalled the mini-lathe several times. Especially when parting. T even complained from upstairs of the chatter and screaming (from the machine).

The frames should be fun. They are longer than the table on the mill.

But I made some parts.



Still need to order metal.

Some questions...

The plans call out BMS (bright mild steel) for many of the parts. At least the imperial drawings do. Some parts in the metric plans call out aluminum.
I don't see why I can't use aluminum for all the BMS parts. Except maybe the internal flywheel. We'll see.

But if I were to get/try some BMS...what would I order (i.e. what's the number)? e.g. For aluminum I look for 6061.

The metric calls out an aluminum cylinder while the imperial shows BMS. In both cases the piston is cast iron. Any reason why this couldn't be brass?
BTW...the imperial shows CI and metric shows CIG. I'm thinking CIG means cast iron or graphite.

If it helps any...most likely this will run on air. Steam is not out of the question...but probably not very often.

Well that's enough for now.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
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Offline crueby

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2015, 10:07:15 PM »
Good to see the start! I printed out the plans and am hoping to start one next month after finishing up making new benches for the shop - given my small lathe/mill (sherline) plus the metal on hand, I'm going to make it 20% smaller than the plans show. In the meantime will be watching along!   :popcorn:

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2015, 10:15:42 PM »
Thanks crueby. You'll be done before me.  ;D
I expect to learn much from your thread. I'll be particularly interested in how you go about making decisions related to scaling.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
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Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2015, 10:39:21 PM »
Gee Wally, whilst giving you a load of crap via PM, I didn't know you had started a build thread,   where's Marv  :lolb: :lolb:. Great to see you back at it pal.  T is just bored, send her out for cocktail onions or get her some Bose noise cancelling headphones and a treadmill  (got one,  barely used  :lolb:); Finish looks super BTW.  What tooling did you use for turning?

Cletus


Offline Don1966

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2015, 10:49:06 PM »
Good to see you starting up on this one Zee. I will be tailing along and by the way use any metal you like. Just use different metals were they rub together, like for cylinder and piston.

Don

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2015, 11:10:55 PM »
Okay bud...stop with the Wally. That kind of stuff sticks.  ;D
Must change my sign-off I guess.  :lolb:

Tooling...
Carbide inserts for turning. I like them well enough but I really need to learn to make my own cutters.
I used power feed (i.e. I engaged the screw cutting thingie) which gives (me) a better finish.

Center drilled, then peck drilled through with a 1/4" followed by a 31/64. Then reamed. I don't know if I should have taken smaller steps in drill size.
WD-40.

Confession #1: As I mentioned, the travel on my tail stock is short. So in the middle of things I had to stop and move the tail stock closer. Not a good thing and makes clearing chips pretty difficult.

Initially I reamed with a 0.499 thinking my cheap stuff tends to go big. (Oh were it so for all things.)
The 1/2" stainless steel shaft went in easily enough. But the rocker shaft was still mighty warm from parting.
I'd set it aside which allowed it to cool even more. I couldn't get it off.  :cussing:
A bit of rod and hammer got the shaft out.

Confession #2: And then I did the unthinkable. Re-chucked and reamed with 0.5. I don't like doing that. But it worked.
For the smaller rocker shaft I went right to the .5 reamer.

send her out

You must be kidding. Send her out? Issue an edict?  :lolb: :lolb: :lolb: It don't work that way around here. Instead of 40 years it would've been 40 seconds.
If that.
You funny.

I'm starting to realize more and more how big this engine is. I'm not good visualizing size and need to see/feel the actual parts. I just started on the rocker shaft...(oh crap...been calling those things I made rocker shafts...but they are rocker shaft SPACERs). The rocker shaft is nearly 6" long and makes the size more real to me. (...insert inappropriate jokes here...where here is over there...)

Thanks Don. Was writing when you posted.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
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Offline derekwarner

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2015, 11:21:21 PM »
Merry Christmas Zee..... those material nominations sound a little  :ROFL:......

An aluminium cylinder with an iron piston is  :facepalm:.......as the wearing component is usually the less complicated or and softer material

A cast iron cylinder with a brass/bronze piston would sound a more conventional combination

Good quality cast iron [spheriodial graphite iron] is usually termed as SG Iron - [3D] is also a sub designation

SG iron has superior machinability, higher strength and better lubricity over standard cast iron [with flakes of graphite]

A number of iron casting kits as produced via conventional gravity fill methods contain porosity, voids and hard spots ...all which detract from the quality of the finished product

Having better qualities, SG iron is centrifugally cast as bar or hollow bar stock......and is readily available from metal merchants

Depending on your location, you may find SG iron as ... BS1789, ASTM A536 or AS1831

BTW.......by convention 3D SG iron is colour paint coded GREEN on the end of the bar by the manufacturers

Derek
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Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op - Australia
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Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2015, 03:08:29 AM »
Great to see you making chips again Zee. I'll be following along no matter how long it takes.

Bill

Offline vcutajar

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2015, 09:05:37 AM »
Nice to see you made a start.  Will surely be following along.

If you decide to do the cylinders in aluminium, as depicted in the metric plans, I think you also need to make a brass liner which is also shown in the metric plans.

Vince

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2015, 10:28:43 AM »
I think the CIG is more likely to be Cast Iron - Grey, can't see any reason for making the cylinder or piston from SG Iron as there is no need for the added strength. Grey iron would be G250 or Durabar in your neck of the woods. Grey iron is also easier to machine than SG iron which is far more like a steel, I have machined an axle and several cranks from SG castings and it is nowhere near as nice to machine as grey iron.

Iron cylinder with an aluminium piston and iron/O rings would work very well or bronze cylinder. The aluminium piston allows us in smaller scales to get a correctly weighted piston rather than trying to replicate a hollow iron casting that would likely have been used on the full size and helps keep the engine balanced. Its a popular combination on model traction engines and I also use it on all my steam/air powered engines.

Two things to watch when using aluminium if you are thinking of using steam. 1. Is expansion for example the piston will expand inside a cylinder that won't expand so much as it gets hot. 2. Aluminium and other metals when in a damp enviroment can corrode and react rather badly.

1215 would be a suitable mild steel followed by 1010 and 1018

J
« Last Edit: December 25, 2015, 10:58:15 AM by Jasonb »

Offline steve-de24

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Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2015, 06:02:49 PM »
Zee wrote :-
"The metric calls out an aluminum cylinder while the imperial shows BMS. In both cases the piston is cast iron. Any reason why this couldn't be brass? BTW...the imperial shows CI and metric shows CIG. I'm thinking CIG means cast iron or graphite."

On the metric plan the aluminium cylinder has a brass liner (part 16B at the right hand edge of sheet 3).
The key to the abbreviations is located at the bottom left corner of sheet 2,  CIG does indeed stand for cast iron or graphite.

Part 57 (top right of sheet 5) should be 3mm thick not 6.  The drawing of this part lacks the horizontal distances between the hole centres - I think they both should be 13mm.

Can I record my thanks to R Middleton and  J A M de Waal for the original design and the metric drawings.

Seasons greetings to all,  Steve