Author Topic: Joe Cool MQL and NDM  (Read 5380 times)

Offline sshire

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Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« on: December 04, 2015, 05:46:36 PM »
Joe Cool

My name is Stan and I'm a Coolantoholic.

A look at my shelf shows Relton A9, Kooltool, Alcohol, Enco #1 (there don't seem to be any other numbers), light and heavy thread cutting oil, Tap Magic, Tap Magic for Aluminum, Tap Magic Heavy Weight, ReLion, WD-40. Lard? That's where I draw the line.

There are Spillmasters next to each machine. Mill, lathe, bandsaws: they all have their own can and brush. Lab wash bottles. Tuna fish cans and a gross of acid brushes.

This is getting out of hand. The other problem is that wet chips are difficult to clean up and vacuum. Cutting a slot is always a pain because the damp chips tend to pack the slot so it's table crank handle in one hand and air nozzle in the other.

Flood coolant looks to be a pain what with filters, pumps, tramp oil filters, refractometers and the like. Mist systems, unless tuned correctly are prone to airborne fog.

A few weeks ago I was waiting my turn at a supplier, drinking their dreadful coffee and mumbling about coolants and lubricants and ran into a rep for Trico. I then got the pitch about MQL and NDM.
Having no idea what he was talking about, I stopped him for a definition and learned more than I needed to know about Minimum Quantity Lubrication, also known as Near Dry Machining.

He asked where I worked and I jokingly said that I was the boss at the Pennsylvania headquarters of C.E.M.S. (I do admit that I didn't expand that to Close Enuf Machine Shop).

So, there I was, driving home with a demo unit of the Trico MD 1200. (Micro Drop)

After a few days I returned it to him and ordered one.

Air and a tiny bit of lube/coolant sprayed on the tool from 1-2" away. The air and coolant controls are independent. The air is adjusted to just blow the chips away and a minuscule amount of cutting fluid is sprayed directly on the tool. By minuscule, I mean if I hold my finger ( machine off of course) in the nozzle path, it takes about 10 seconds to notice any liquid.

I first thought that this can't do anything. That was Incorrect.
   1.   The chips are blown away so they're not recut, nor can they jam a slot.
   2.   The air provides some cooling
   3.   The finish is better
   4.   I tried an 8" long cut (.4" D.O.C) at about 2300 RPM. The part and the end mill were at room temp after the cut.
   5.   Applying the fluid directly to the cutting tool is the most efficient use for lubrication and cooling.
   6.   The chips are dry. The vise is dry. The parallels are dry. What a treat!

According to some posts on the Practical Machinist forum, people who use these for real jobs find that a mill, through an 8 hour shift, will use somewhere between a teaspoon and a tablespoon of fluid. That means that the gallon that came with my unit should last me about 8 lifetimes. I'm quite sure that my 6 Spillmasters have that much lost to evaporation.

The unit is very light and easily moved from mill to lathe to bandsaw. Just requires an air hookup with a minimum of 60 PSI. My small compressor does cycle more frequently but not excessively.

My unit is a single line (they have 2 line units) with a manual on/off switch. They also have a solenoid on/off unit for CNC integration.

For some reason, Travers, here in the colonies, has a bundle with the unit and a gallon of Trico Synthetic fluid (I only read horror stories about the vegetable based fluid hardening to about a Rc 80 and gumming things up if not cleaned fastidiously)
for about half of MSC price..



Mounted above the Bridgeport control,box. This way, the on/off switch for the Trico unit is in an accessible place when the mill is stopped and started.



Mounting plate for the nozzle magnet mount.





The instructions suggest keeping the nozzle 1-2 from the cutting tool.





Dry chips



« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 05:50:09 PM by sshire »
Best,
Stan

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2015, 06:29:29 PM »
Looks like a very nice system Stan. A bit large for my Sherline stuff  but once I bring my full size mill and lathe home I would certainly consider something like that. Keep us posted on how you like it after a month or so. Will you be using it on the lathe and bandsaw as well? I know you said it was easily portable, just curious if you have tried it on those machines yet or just the mill so far.

Bill

Offline sshire

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2015, 07:53:21 PM »
Bill
I will do a follow-up. My intention is to use it on all cutting machines. I have air at the lathe and a source close to the bandsaws. Reports on the various forums suggest that it is excellent for the bandsaw since it doesn't get coolant down into the guides. That said, I watched a How is it Made last night and the bandsaw cutting aluminum slugs from 14" diameter round bar had the coolant piped right onto the guides. It was also a MQL system.
Best,
Stan

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2015, 12:47:03 AM »
Hi Stan
I think that you will be very pleased with your Micro Drop system. I have had mine for enough years to burn through a gallon of lube. The little reservoir usually will last me 6 months or more.

I when I first got mine I purchased the vegetable based lube without knowing any better. Pretty much what you have read and been told is true. While it does work ok; that crap dries to a rock hard brown goo.
When it was finally all gone I had to completely disassemble the unit and clean it out. Then by putting hot soapy water in the reservoir I was able to push the slime out of the liquid lines.

I purchased a gallon of the synthetic lube last December, on sale form Travers; I have been very happy with it. Come to think about I still using the first fill; almost a year later.

I have mine mounted on the rear of the mill under the CNC computer.


I added a solenoid valve and relay to my controller and I can control the unit with the CNC software. I also have a manual switch on my control panel that will allow me to turn the unit on and off.

I got rid of the magnets and mounted the Loc Line right to the side of the mill. I have one on each side.
The nozzles are pretty easy to make and they do get chewed up over time from hitting the cutters. I find that it is easier to just make them rather than order them from a distributer.

Looking forward to seeing how you like it going forward; while not inexpensive it is a very nice addition to the shop.

Best regards,
Dave

« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 12:50:21 AM by Dave Otto »

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2015, 12:56:56 AM »
As best as I can tell this MD7 lubricant is used straight out of the container (not diluted). Pretty pricey stuff but if the system is as stingy using it as you guys say, its not too bad, just wouldn't want to accidentally spill any :)

Bill

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2015, 01:04:16 AM »
Yea, sticker shock comes to mind. That is why it was nice to get a deal from Travers last winter; for a HSM guy a gallon should last years. If not you are doing something wrong. I wanted to trash the rest of the vegetable based crap when I found out how bad it was; but at that price I had to use it up.  :Lol:

Dave

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2015, 03:32:22 AM »
Yikes! I see these are $600 to $700+. Is this the right item? That's up there with the cost of a VFD for my mill, out of my price range.

But are these the same principal as the "no fog misters" like this, or this, or even this? Or is it similar to Chuck's Fog Buster. Terry was also working on a similar No Fog Coolant system but I don't think it's finished.

Is there an additional advantage to the Trico?

Thanks.

Hugh
Hugh

Offline kvom

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2015, 01:04:11 PM »
I'd be interested in knowing how effective that system is for cutting deep slots in aluminum and avoiding chip welding.

Offline sshire

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2015, 01:24:27 PM »
I'm not totally sure about the Kool mist but Whiskey has one and I'm sure he can tell us.
The Trico Micro Drop price originally put me off but the Travers bundle (MD-1200 unit + 1 gal of synthetic fluid) was about $550. Subtract $100 for the fluid, so about $450 for the unit.
MSC is getting near $900 for the unit alone.

If I'm correct in all that I read, the misters use a water soluble liquid. I'm not all that thrilled with "water" on my 45 year old Bridgeport. Also the misters are providing coolant only. The micro drop fluid is primarily a lubricant which is necessary for drilling and tapping.

Also, misters use significantly more fluid.

Again, I could be totally incorrect here.
Best,
Stan

Offline sshire

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2015, 01:26:17 PM »
Kurt
How deep and how wide a slot?

Let us know and I'll run a test with your numbers.
Best,
Stan

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2015, 03:48:36 PM »
I purchased my Micro Drop a number of years ago and seem to remember only paying about $350.00 for it. You can watch eBay and they do turn up from time to time. I did have a Kool Mist setup before and wasn't very happy with it for all the reasons you have heard in the past. The mixed up liquid would go bad in the tank and smell; then need to be cleaned out. Then there was the water issue, and staining of machine parts and tooling. Maybe there is better concentrate now days but I would never go back to the mist type of system.

I picked up a used  Accu-Lube system which similar to the Trico Micro Drop; only it uses a pneumatic pump instead of a pressurized container to deliver the fluid to the tip. I have it all cleaned up and working and will install it on my band saw someday when I have a little spare time.

Dave

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2015, 09:42:37 PM »
Ah. So they are a different animal. I wonder if you could use the synthetic fluid in a "no fog mist" system?

I'll probably try the pressurized mist system before spending that much. I now have a syphon mist system which works OK for me. But it does fog up the shop at times.

Thanks for the clarification.

Hugh
Hugh

Offline kvom

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2015, 11:07:39 PM »
Kurt
How deep and how wide a slot?

Let us know and I'll run a test with your numbers.

Most problems for me is small EM, so 1/4" slot with 3/16 EM, 3/8 deep would be an example.  Currently I just use an air blast.

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Joe Cool MQL and NDM
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2015, 12:39:31 AM »
Did somebody mention my name ? Yeah, I use the KoolMist system.  I mainly bought it for the surface grinder,  pretty much same effect as flood coolant with not as much "runny stuff", I can pretty much wipe it up with a towel.  I have found whilst keeping cutters cool keeps them happy,  some tooling likes to be "wet and oily "  when it comes to the mill and lathe.  I think maybe the tool geometry comes into play here also.  I use the KoolMist 77 coolant and haven't noticed any bad smells yet.

Cletus