Author Topic: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)  (Read 242132 times)

Offline Steamer5

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #750 on: August 06, 2017, 07:27:48 PM »
Hi Willy,
 The theory is / was that yes the hardened buttons would roll when the file hits them, IF the stud isn't done up too tight, but there is likely hood of damaging the file when it hits the button. Probably could agree to disagree either way on this! So I've never harden them.... also due to not having heating gear at the time.... but use to have issues with getting odd shapes if not careful when getting down to the last bit to round if the stud Was to tight to stop the nut falling off! So by using a longer stud a spring & locknut(s) it solved several problem.
I guess it's horses for courses on what you were shown / taught back when.

Right back to regular updates on Kim's progress!... still looking good!

Cheers Kerrin
Get excited and make something!

Offline Don1966

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #751 on: August 10, 2017, 09:12:30 PM »
Shaping up real nice Kim with all the details. Still following you buddy.... :ThumbsUp:


 :cheers:
Don

Online Kim

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #752 on: August 13, 2017, 12:35:24 AM »
Thanks for all the input on heat treating the filing buttons everyone!  And all the encouragement!
Kim

Online Kim

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #753 on: August 13, 2017, 12:46:06 AM »
Today's update: completing the Eccentric Rod.

I drilled and reamed the hole for the Eccentric Rod on one side of the ring, and on the other side, I drilled and tapped the set screw hole. The set screw will ride in the groove on the eccentric to keep the ring aligned.


With that done, it’s time to solder the pieces together.  I decided to try silver soldering.  I probably could have gotten by with soft solder, but I need to overcome my fear of silver soldering.  So, that’s what I did.  Here I’m all setup for the operation – flux and a short length of solder in place:


I was trying to be careful not to get things too hot, but I think I just wasn’t aggressive enough. It took too long to bring things up to temp and my flux melted away.   I added a little more, and eventually, the solder went zap and melted. So, I finally got there.


A pickle bath and cleanup, and finally ready for the other side.  And here’s that operation complete.  Went much better!


After cleanup, I bent the rod, as directed, and discovered that even with all my careful planning the rod was too long. I was trying to figure out exactly how to deal with this – do I re-solder?  Or just bend the rod WAY more that shown in the plans? No, bad idea. A sharp bend in the rod looked stupid.  OK, re-solder.  But how do I get the thing apart now? 

About this time, the rod just came right out of the ring.  Apparently, there was no real solder connection.  It just came apart.  Guess that solved THAT problem.

So I adjusted the length of the rod – THIS time I checked it more carefully to make sure it would be about the right length:


Then I went back and silver soldered it again.  This time I tried to be more careful to make sure I got an actual connection.


But alas, as I was cleaning the part – snap – it came apart again. Clearly the solder was not wicking down into the hole.

Then I started thinking – I had a 3/32” rod, in a 3/32” reamed hole.  It was a nice snug fit that I was proud of. But there was no room for solder to wick down there.  Kozo talks about this in his silver soldering technique description in his “Building the Shay” book (the original one – I don’t have the “New Shay” book (yet)).

So, I opened up the hole a bit.  I used a 3/32” drill instead of the 3/32” reamer.  That loosened the fit just a bit, hopefully enough.  So, I get it all setup and try a third time.  This time I added a little extra solder just to be sure.  And I was pretty sure I got a good solder fillet.  And I could see that it came out the other side of the hole too (on the inside of the ring).  Success!



After cleanup, it still looks good.  And it didn’t break off.  Nice solder fillet all the way around! And a nice ring of solder on the inside of the hole too.


And here’s a close-up of the other side of the rod. That joint looks pretty good too (though it could stand a bit more cleanup – it’s amazing what you can see in these close-ups that you can’t in real life!)


And here’s the completed Eccentric Rod:


Well, I guess this is what I wanted!  Some education to help me on my way to gaining confidence in silver soldering.

Clearly the solder was not wicking down into the hole.  And in fact, looking back at a zoomed in version of the first two attempts, you can see that is the case.

Here’s a zoom-in on the first attempt.  You can see that the solder has melted onto the larger part (the ring) but doesn’t touch the rod.  There’s a bunch of crystalized flux that is holding them together. And if you don’t look closely, it almost looks like a shiny solder fillet. But its clearly not.  The flux is very brittle and will just break away.


The second attempt has a similar problem.  The picture doesn’t show it as clearly but you can see the same problem.  Solder all around on the big part, but the shiny fillet between the ring and the rod is just a bunch of crystalized flux.


A zoom-in on the third (and final) attempt shows that you can actually see the solder fillet here.  There’s still crystalized flux around but you can also see an actual solder fillet.  And even more telling, was the solder that came through the back side.  Sorry, no pics of this.


Remember – in each case these pictures were taken to show the excellent solder fillet I thought I had.  But the first two cases there was no actual solder contact on the smaller part.  Just a shiny looking fillet that turned out to be nothing but flux.

The real give away, I think, is the fact that a little solder came out the back side through the hole in the third attempt, and it didn’t in the first two.

Anyway, I’m a bit smarter now than I was this morning!  So it’s a good day.  And I’ve got a completed Eccentric Rod that will fit where its supposed to go! :)

Thanks for checking in on me,
Kim

« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 01:49:08 AM by Kim »

Offline crueby

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #754 on: August 13, 2017, 01:10:50 AM »
Nice recovery on the solder!


In Kozo's new shay book, he mentions using a small prick punch on mating flat surfaces to leave wicking room. For shafts in holes, do like you did and just drill rather than ream. As you saw, seeing solder on the far side is a sure sign of success.


Maybe someday I'll get it figured out myself, so many little techniques to the soldering.


 :popcorn:


 :popcorn:

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #755 on: August 13, 2017, 01:25:50 AM »
Very nice work Kim, and you gained a bunch of knowledge today too.  :ThumbsUp:
The small punch marks that Chris mentioned work great to help keep parts in alignment and leave space for the solder to flow.

Dave

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #756 on: August 13, 2017, 01:47:22 AM »
Third time is the charm as they say. Well done Kim!

Bill

Online Kim

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #757 on: August 13, 2017, 02:19:47 AM »
Nice recovery on the solder!

In Kozo's new shay book, he mentions using a small prick punch on mating flat surfaces to leave wicking room. For shafts in holes, do like you did and just drill rather than ream. As you saw, seeing solder on the far side is a sure sign of success.

Maybe someday I'll get it figured out myself, so many little techniques to the soldering.
Yes, he has that in the original Shay book also.  Still, I'm going to get the New Shay book too.  I think I need the whole set :)

Very nice work Kim, and you gained a bunch of knowledge today too.  :ThumbsUp:
The small punch marks that Chris mentioned work great to help keep parts in alignment and leave space for the solder to flow.
All these little details that always make more sense once I actually try it!  And yes, while I'm no where near to having confidence, I'm actually starting to see how this silver soldering thing might work!

Third time is the charm as they say.
They do say that, and it seemed to hold true for me today!

Thanks!
Kim

Online Kim

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #758 on: August 14, 2017, 02:07:58 AM »
Short update today.  Today, I made the Eccentric.

It started as a 5/8” diameter 12L14 rod.  I cut a shallow groove then cut off the 1/4" Eccentric.


After cleaning up the sides, I put it in the mill to drill and tap a hole for the eccentric stop post – this is going to be a slip eccentric.


Then, I drilled and reamed a 1/4" hole, offset from the center by 1/8”.  This of course, gives it the eccentric throw.


Here’s the Eccentric family shot to date.   Still have the Eccentric hub to go – the thing that will catch the pin and make the slip eccentric turn.


Slowly but slowly, I’m making progress :)
Kim

Offline crueby

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #759 on: August 14, 2017, 03:59:15 AM »
Looking forward to seeing how the slip eccentric works, haven't seen the details of what goes into one yet.


 :popcorn:

Offline steamboatmodel

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #760 on: August 16, 2017, 05:51:47 PM »
Looking at your soldering shots, in one of the failed attempts you can see the solder has formed into a ball on the surface, this is a sign of not enough or uneven heating. It takes lots of practice to bring everything up to the proper temperature all at the same time and not burn off the flux. It does look like you have it in the final attempt.
Regards,
Gerald.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors--and miss. Lazarus Long

Online Kim

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #761 on: August 16, 2017, 06:50:09 PM »
Thanks for the comment Gerald,
I appreciate any pointers and coaching I can get!  This Silver Soldering thing has a bit of a learning curve.  I do think I'm improving, but it can still smell my fear :)  I'm gaining confidence though!  Practice, practice, practice!
Kim

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #762 on: August 16, 2017, 07:05:49 PM »
Kim, sorry for the late response, " yeah I'm still following " . Man I've welded from Sch.10 stainless to 4" wall chrome moly under X-ray scrutiny, but, have never silver soldered. I've "soft soldered " or " plumber soldered" up to 4" copper pipe. I really am learning from your trials and tribulations  :cheers:.

Cletus

Oh yeah, loving the build overall

Offline crueby

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #763 on: August 16, 2017, 07:34:41 PM »
Looking at your soldering shots, in one of the failed attempts you can see the solder has formed into a ball on the surface, this is a sign of not enough or uneven heating. It takes lots of practice to bring everything up to the proper temperature all at the same time and not burn off the flux. It does look like you have it in the final attempt.
Regards,
Gerald.
That kind of ball will also form if you have the flame directly on the solder rather than on the metal near it. Goal is to get the metal hot enough, quickly, to melt the solder itself. A pointed length of rod is handy as a tool to push the solder against the joint, also to spread the melting solder along the joint. Once it has a start it will flow farther, like tinning a wire. As you say, practice, practice. Lots of ways to mess it up, great feeling when it just goes.

Offline Don1966

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #764 on: August 16, 2017, 07:38:21 PM »
Bit late here Kim but your making progress and your soldering skills will improve as you get wisher about things. You're doing excellent work buddy keep it up the tractor is looking great.... :ThumbsUp:



 :cheers:
Don

 

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