Author Topic: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)  (Read 247092 times)

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #420 on: August 04, 2016, 11:16:23 AM »
Kim, kudos on making the cutters, it's something I haven't tried yet. And, I suspect that you have the ability to become a good welder: there is no telling how many times I've finished a nice smooth weld and rubbed a finger across it; know full well that it was still hot :facepalm2:  :Doh:. Just something about it :shrug: Keep it coming.

Cletus

Offline Don1966

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #421 on: August 04, 2016, 05:23:07 PM »
Hi Kim sorry i didn't asnwer your question earlier. I have been out of town and not having a way to get on the forum. You can see my attachments below and how the different teeth count changes the profile of the cutter. The close up shows the top of the teeth getting bigger for smaller teeth count. So it is almost best to make the cutter for the different teeth count, but for our use using the mid calculated cutter will do if you plan on make more gears with different teeth count.What the calculations do is calculate the correct ratio in the whole gear arrangement. It may not be exact to match with factory gears but for our use it's close enough. I hope this answers your question.
I decided to do a mesh of the teeth and the model 3 shows that the top of the teeth does not matter much as long as they mesh at the pitch circle diameter and all three mesh at that diameter no matter what the gear tooth count. Look at model 1 and you will see that the pitch circle diameter of all three cutters are just about in mess. So my conclusion is it don't matter which one you use as long as it falls in the cutter range. It's close enough for our use.

Don
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 07:57:16 PM by Don1966 »

Online Kim

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #422 on: August 04, 2016, 08:05:43 PM »
Thanks Eric, appreciate the sympathy :)

Don, thank you for the reply, and no need to apologize! I appreciate any help I can get!  And those pictures help a lot! It does seem that the difference is more significant than I though.  I'll have to look at how many different tooth counts I need and decided on the number of cutters I can get away with.  Or maybe just make one for each tooth count as your suggest.  I'm sure I'll be redoing things a few times anyway till I get the hang of it, so it may not be much more work :)

Kim

Online Kim

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #423 on: August 21, 2016, 02:46:59 AM »
With the button tool ready, next up was to make my gear cutter blank. For this, I used 1” round W-1 tool steel. I was going to feed it through my 1” collet, but turns out, 1” material won’t ‘feed through’ the 1" collet.  The threads on the inside are just a mite too tall to allow a 1” piece of stock through.

So instead, I cut off a thin slice with the horizontal bandsaw (probably easier than using a cut-off tool anyway) and then set it up with my little Taig 3-jaw chuck to face off the slice.  I then flipped it around and brought it to the correct thickness.


Next I drilled and reamed a 3/8” hole to fit on the arbor I just made (“just”, being about a month ago ).


Here’s my gear cutter blank:


Then I put it on the 3/8” arbor, mounted it in the lathe, and cleaned up the circumference to make sure it was true.


Here’s where the fun begins!  I used the button tool to cut one side of the cutter, going in the exact, specified depth.


Then moved to the other side, the exact specified amount, and made a second cut; again going in the exact specified depth.

Forming the cutter with a single button meant I had to make two cuts, but I only had to make one button. And with one button, I can re-use the button tool holder.  For a two button tool, I can’t share the holder because the distance between the buttons will be different for each size button.  I’m not sure I see much advantage in making the two button tool.  Maybe others can tell me why that would be more desirable?

With the tooth form created in the tool blank, I put the arbor in the square collet block and took it to the mill to cut the teeth.


As you can see, I cut four teeth.  I know others cut 8 or more teeth, but that seemed harder, and I wasn’t sure there would be a lot of gain for a minimal use tool, and it would be more teeth to relieve. So I went with four.

And here I’ve just filed some relief on the back of each tooth, trying ever-so-hard to avoid the fronts of the teeth!  I didn’t want to damage those!


With the cutter shape completed, I heat treated and tempered it (no pics, but no burnt fingers this time either! :embarassed:).  And here’s the finished gear cutter:


Now it gets even MORE fun!  Mounting the gear cutter back in the arbor – being careful to put the cutter in so the business end hit first – I setup the RT and went to work on a scrap piece of 3/8” brass from the junk bin.


Stupid me, I forgot to tighten the collet, so the gear blank slid. :facepalm2:  It didn’t really become noticeable till I’d gotten ¾ of the way around and realized that it looked all wonky:


So I stopped that test run, and tried again with another bit of scrap brass.  I carefully tightened the collet and set to work on this one.  I was feeling pretty pleased about it till I took it out and looked at it end on.  The one on the right is the first one – the teeth look tolerable endwise, but they were a little wonky along the length.  The one on the left, my 2nd try, the teeth are all pointing in a strange direction.  I must have goofed up the Z-axis when I was changing blanks.  I don’t know why I didn’t lock the Z-axis down, but I didn’t.  I clearly should have!


With that minor fiasco, I called it a day and went in.  This brings us up to the end of LAST week’s work.  It was clearly time to go in and get my mind on other things for a while.

A week later...

After thinking about all my gear making problems for a week, I went back out to the shop today to try again.  This time, I decided to go for it and try the real gears.  So I cut a longer piece of brass to use, and drilled a support hole on the far end this time.  I also spent more time squaring up the RT. That took an inordinate amount of time because the first piece of rod I was using was bent.  When I got a straight piece, it went much better!  :insane:

Here we’ve just finished cutting 16 theeth, all around the gear blank.


Following the tooth cutting, I went back to the lathe, drilled and reamed a ¼” hole for the drive shaft, and cut off the outer 1/8” or so (since that portion only had partial teeth).


And then parted off two ¼” lengths for my drive gears.




After a little clean up, this is how they look.


Not too bad for my first set of gears  :D.  Now I’m trying to figure out how to mount these puppies. A set screw won’t have enough meat to bite into, and it would mess up the gear teeth anyway.  Maybe I have to solder it to the shaft.  We’ll work on that next.

By this time, it was too stinky hot out in my garage to continue working.  We’re having a heat wave up here in the great northwest, and I'm not built for heat!  So, I called it a day and went in.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 06:29:09 PM by Kim »

Offline 10KPete

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #424 on: August 21, 2016, 05:09:00 AM »
An eventful journey with a great ending, Kim! Those gears sure don't have any hub left. Solder or Loctite will maybe hold 'em ???

Always watching  :popcorn:

I did shop time in 1 hour increments today, with the temp hitting around 85 I was die'n!

You folks in the hot part of the world may be laughing but us up here in the PNW with Scandinavian blood are way above our comfort zone. I don't put on another shirt 'til it drops to about 55. But I can only take off so many before the neighbors start complaining... :o :Lol:

Pete
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Retired, finally!
SB 10K lathe, Benchmaster mill. And stuff.

Online Kim

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #425 on: August 21, 2016, 06:43:16 AM »
You understand my heat predicament exactly, Pete!  It hit 99F in Hillsboro today! And it was in the low 80's in my shop.  Its not air conditioned, but the house is.  Usually, I can keep it in the mid 70's well into the afternoon, but it had been so hot the days before, it never really cooled down inside my garage.  Yeah, I'm a heat weenie, its true. But like Pete, I'm just not built for the heat!  :Mad: :'( (That's sweat! not tears!)

On the gears, I was re-reading Rudy's explanations (back in the air-conditioned comfort of the house) and I think I should have made the hole in the gears only 1/8", instead of 1/4".  And apparently I will be soldering the gear to a hub/spacer.  but the spacer is going to have a 1/4" axle hole, so not sure if this will be any better or not.  I'll have to cogitate on that.  I don't always find Rudy's explanations very straight forward. Once I figure it out, I can see what he meant, but its not easy to tease out his meaning unless I already understand what he's doing.

Kim

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #426 on: August 21, 2016, 06:52:19 AM »
Hi Kim very good progress with the gear cutting and an excellent result. Something I should  attack also in the near future. Until today gear cutting is a kind of black box for me.
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline scc

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #427 on: August 21, 2016, 09:47:20 AM »
Well done Kim,     I have only looked at 2 threads so far today.  Your's cutting tiny gears and Andrew (jadge) cutting huge ones.  This sure is a wonderful forum!!                Terry

Offline Don1966

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #428 on: August 21, 2016, 01:53:18 PM »
Hi Kim, awesome results buddy and the mishaps are the learning part because I think we all have them. You are now on your way to gear cutting and a joyful journey doings it.
Using a single button only takes more time to cut the gear. As long as the dimension are cut correctly you are doing great and yes you should be able to use the same holder to make more cutters. When you make the a different gear check to see how well they mess. I know your a happy camper now that you cut your first gear because I know I was. Congrats my friend......... :ThumbsUp:

Don

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #429 on: August 21, 2016, 03:02:59 PM »
The gear cutter came out great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: You did a nice job of documenting the process.

I also came away with a better understanding of how to hold a thin part, like the cutter, using top jaws in the lathe chuck.

It's definitely nice to see our temperature cool down some. I'm fortunate to have a window air conditioner in my shop room, located out in the hanger, that keeps it at 72, so I HAD to spend my afternoons out there in order to stay cool.  :naughty:

Jim

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"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Online Kim

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #430 on: August 21, 2016, 04:21:25 PM »
Thanks for stopping by and looking in everyone, in spite of the heat! :)  Jim its supposed to be a lot cooler today, only the mid 80's (still HOT in my book!), unfortunately, I'll be occupied with family events.  But such is life!

Yes, I couldn't agree more Terry, this is a wonderful forum!

Thanks for all your help and encouragement in cutting my first gears here Don.  I appreciate it greatly, and am making big use of your spreadsheet too!

Achim, you definitely should give gear cutting a try.  I'm not finding it as difficult as I'd feared.  Yes, there's a lot involved, but if I take it one step at a time (and one learning mistake at a time :)) its no different than any other machining task.  And I'm leaning a lot about gears, and what all those terms mean.  Its amazing how much more they mean to me now (Pitch Diameter, Pressure Angle, Diametral pitch, etc.)

Kim

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #431 on: August 21, 2016, 05:17:03 PM »
Great documentation and a great result too Kim. The gears look wonderful !! Nicely done  :praise2:

Bill

Online Dave Otto

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #432 on: August 21, 2016, 08:07:58 PM »
Hi Kim

I enjoyed seeing your progress on the gears and gear tooling; nice work!

Dave

Online Kim

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #433 on: August 22, 2016, 12:38:57 AM »
Thanks Bill and Dave for checking in, I appreciate it!
Kim

Online Kim

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Re: Steam Tractor 3/4" (Rudy K)
« Reply #434 on: August 30, 2016, 05:17:34 AM »
Hi everybody,
Made some progress this weekend. I made a 1/4" mandrel to hold the gears while cutting them, and then went into production on gear tooth cutter blanks.  Nothing new or novel, so I considered just giving this short update. But, since I know this is a skeptical crowd, and nothing is real unless photo-documented, here are a few shots of this weekend’s work:

Here are the pieces of the gear mandrel:


Assembled:


And Seven gear cutter blanks, along with my first 'test' cutter:


Next I’ll make a button, and shape the cutter for the largest gear (120 tooth, 48 DP, 20 degree PA).

I’ll be doing gears for at least another month or more now, so don’t be surprised   :D
Kim
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 06:30:20 PM by Kim »

 

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