Author Topic: Ruston-Bucyrus (Steam) Shovels  (Read 5678 times)

Offline crueby

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Re: Ruston-Bucyrus (Steam) Shovels
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2018, 01:17:35 PM »
Good start on the drawings, the tracks look like they will be interesting to mill out, but at least no undercut areas. The patent drawings can be a real gold mine on those early machines, they seemed to depict the parts as made more than the modern ones which show concepts more than actual shapes.


 :popcorn:

Offline Steam Haulage

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Re: Ruston-Bucyrus (Steam) Shovels
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2018, 09:03:26 AM »
Its about time I posted some of the drawing work I have acheived whilst studying the information I have managed to accumulate.
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Offline crueby

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Re: Ruston-Bucyrus (Steam) Shovels
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2018, 03:25:09 PM »
Excellent! Been looking forward to seeing the 3d!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Offline Steam Haulage

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Re: Ruston-Bucyrus (Steam) Shovels
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2018, 11:20:17 AM »
Attached is the index diagram from the R-B parts book which defines the absolute centre distance between the drive sprocket and the tension roller of the caterpillar tracks of the 19 RB. The measurement in the specification provided to the War Office quotes 8’ 7½”. Once a metric figure was added it was 2.63m. A slightly inexact conversion 2.63 m ≡ 2,628.90mm.  of little significance to me.
The spec was provided to the War Office for purchases made during and after WWII at a time before pocket calculators. Perhaps their draughtsmen did the conversion (see below) using a guessing stick or perhaps 4 figure tables rather than 6 or 9 figure.
Somewhat off topic but might be the source of confusion and many errors in the switch by many countries to the metric system might be the following –

After 1898, the de facto legal definition of the yard came to be accepted as 36⁄39.370113 of a meter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yard
In turn the inch has, for a long time, been defined as 1/36th of a yard.
and

The (international) inch has been exactly 25.4 mm since July 1959. At this point in time the (international) yard was redefined as 0.9144 metre - until this time the ratio between the US yard and the metre was different to the ratio between the UK yard and the metre. For more information, see Engineering Metrology by K J Hume (2 ed) Macdonald London 1967. The American inch changed by 2 millionths of an inch and the UK inch by 1.7 millionths of an inch. The international inch falls mid way between the old UK and US inch. http://www.npl.co.uk/reference/faqs/
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Offline crueby

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Re: Ruston-Bucyrus (Steam) Shovels
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2018, 12:55:51 PM »
Conversion rounding aside, that sort of diagram is a great rind, lots of detail there.


 :popcorn:

Offline Steam Haulage

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Re: Ruston-Bucyrus (Steam) Shovels
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2019, 02:13:48 PM »
Ruston-Bucyrus 19 R-B

Part 1: 19 RB Ruston & Hornsby Engine - Atomiser Design Thoughts
 

Some may have seen my earlier posts on the 19 -B which I might get round to building one day. A big project which I have spent some time turning over in my mind,and researching.

Bearing in mind the saying 'Never prophecy, especially about the future.' this thread is about my attempts to produce a working diesel engine to provide the power and sound of one of these excavators at work. Chris Crueby made suggestions to me about this build and how to approach the inevitable research.

The engine is the heart of these machines as deployed in the British Isles. Some electric variants were available employing the Ward-Leonard system, but I have no experience or interest in these.

Initially I found it difficult to discover which R-H engines had been factory fitted. However the Imperial War Museum hold a specification from Ruston-Bucyrus  Publication RB1300 showing the “Ruston” 3 VQBN 4-cycle, solid injection totally enclosed diesel. This spec. quotes 5 3/8” bore x 8” stroke 54 BHP @ 960RPM.
The same document describes the fuel atomisers ( injectors) as being of very simple design with no user adjustments. From all the photographs I have seen these appear to be the Ruston Mark 37 Injector although I would hardly describe these as simple. The only other injector I can find amongst Ruston’s deigns is that shown in patent GB1110102(A) of 1968 so perhaps R-H themselves may have wanted a simpler design. This would not have been available in WWII.

There seems to be limit to reducing the size of diesel engines. and I would like to find out what this limit is. Two commercial diesels were made, by Petter and by Yanmar.
Each claimed to be the World’s smallest single cylinder and around 200c capacity. There is no evidence to show why that capacity was chosen but maybe it is the lower limit.

My first objective is to make a working injector scaled from R-H’s drawings. Once I can produce a working injector to Ruston’s pre-war design I will try to reduce its size, and thus delivery volume, to as small as I can achieve.

The Mark 37 is certainly straightforward to manufacture being comprised in the main of turnings, with the notable exception of the main body which was probably a casting bored and threaded appropriately. The clearances must have needed skilled set-ups to achieve.

It is well known that Bucyrus-Erie were concerned at the time consuming methods employed by Rustons and I think it likely that they will have not only modernise R-B’s methods but also assisted R-H.

My interpretation of the designs of atomisers I have discovered to date is shown in the attachment.
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Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Ruston-Bucyrus (Steam) Shovels
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2019, 08:03:45 PM »
In an old SIC (Strictly Internal Combustion) mag vol 14 no 79-82 2001, there's an article on how to build a running 10c2m diesel engine the DUX by Martin Alewin of Holland ...!... The detailed description and drawings of the injector are in #81.
It is deceptively simple - but requires a very talented / experienced machinist to make a running engine - simply because of the precision required ....

Online Roger B

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Re: Ruston-Bucyrus (Steam) Shovels
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2019, 08:20:46 AM »
Jerry,

I think that we had some discussions on the ME Forum a while ago. Find Hansen has successfully made some sub 20cc diesels although he does not give many details.

http://findsminimodelhotbulbengines.dk/truedieselengine/truehorizontaldieselmodelengine.html

If I remember correctly the Ruston Mark 37 injector was a multi hole type as in the picture below (taken from T. D. Walshaw's book Diesel Engine Design. Well worth finding a copy). The holes are typically in the 02.-0.3mm size range so scaling them will be difficult.

I have been trying a single hole design without much success and am planning a version of Find Hansen's mushroom type for my next experiments.
Best regards

Roger

Offline Steam Haulage

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Re: Ruston-Bucyrus (Steam) Shovels
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2019, 11:34:06 AM »
Hi Roger,

I think our previous discussions were on this site but my memory is hazy on that, since I have had sojourns in hospital in the interim.
As for Hansen's models I find them a distraction as although they are apparently first class, and of a standard which I can never achieve there is information available to me which confirms their construction. For now I think it better to ignore his work whilst still admiring his models.

I have followed and continue to follow your excellent threads on this site about both your injector design and engine development with great interest. The diagram that you shew is I believe not the Mk 37 but the Ruston 'cap injector'  which seems to have come later and for which I have not been able to find any drawings other than those Ruston catalogue drawings copies of which are given in Walshaw. You can see that the cap injector has several more steps in the diameters, especially on the needle valve  and has a much longer cap enclosing that needle valve.
The designer of the Mk37 had apparently decided to control the fuel injection by means of the injection pump and the needle valve and allow a comparatively free flow of diesel down the injector itself. This, by inspection of the limited information available to me, seems to avoid the necessity of excessively small clearances in the Atomiser (Injector) itself . Excess fuel of course being returned through the spill pipe.
Please note that Ruston and Hornsby did not necessarily use the same nomenclature as other manufacturers use either then of now. Wherever possible, in order to avoid confusion in my mind, 0I have tried to give the R-H part name followed by the name now in general use.
The Mk 37 was designed to take either a simple straight seating sleeve (nozzle) coned to accept the tip of the needle or a pintle using an additional inverted cone to provide for various spray angles and patterns.
See the attached pintle seating sleeve.

Over time engine fitters on major maintenance found wear at the point where the needle valve impacted on the seating sleeves, of either type, on earlier atomiser designs created damage and design changes in the needle seating were made.

I am not yet approaching the manufacture of this injector with any confidence, but the memory of my Dad drives me to persist as he would have done.

Jerry
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Offline Steam Haulage

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Re: Ruston-Bucyrus (Steam) Shovels
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2019, 12:56:19 PM »
I have to keep reminding myself that although requiring some talent and even more precision and patience thousands of diesel injectors have been made commercially. Whether I have sufficient of any of these or even of concentration remains to be seen. Originally these were made on the simplest of machinery even sometimes by hand. I contrariwise have only to produce three for this engine. Of course they all have to perform identically!
I have always been a believer, like Roger seems to be, in ‘if at first you don’t succeed try, try again’. I also ask myself ‘What else have I got to do? ‘ with the rider ‘That’s more/as interesting?

Today I have to decide in the light of the above mentioned fitter’s comments what materials to use.
Perhaps chrome will impart the necessary hardness without excessive cost  for the seating sleeve  with stainless steel for the needle valve. For these I will this coming week order sufficient.And then I will be able to make a start.
Jerry
Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you, pigs treat you as equal.