Author Topic: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale  (Read 57965 times)

Offline Steamer5

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #195 on: August 21, 2017, 05:40:03 PM »
Hi Mike,
 Well it 04:40..... I work shift work for my sins days then nights!.....Woops sorry mentioned that 4 letter word! Allows more than 2 days off most of the time! Still doesn't mean I get enough workshop time.......working on that!!

Reading what everybody's up to helps fill out the small hours.

Amazed at what you are up to on this build!

Cheers Kerrin

Get excited and make something!

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #196 on: August 21, 2017, 08:37:27 PM »
Hi Mike, very impressive.
Kind Regards
Achim

Online Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #197 on: August 21, 2017, 09:20:47 PM »
Hello Achim

Do they still have that fabulous 5.6 litre straight 8, W125 Silver Arrows car on display in the Mercedes Benz showroom on the corner of Odeonsplatz in Munich?
I saw it there a few years ago, so it may have since been returned to the Classic Centre Museum in Stuttgart.

Regards

Mike
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 09:28:56 PM by Vixen »
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Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #198 on: August 21, 2017, 11:46:05 PM »
 :o
Wow. That's about all I can say.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #199 on: August 22, 2017, 10:16:57 AM »
Hello Achim

Do they still have that fabulous 5.6 litre straight 8, W125 Silver Arrows car on display in the Mercedes Benz showroom on the corner of Odeonsplatz in Munich?
I saw it there a few years ago, so it may have since been returned to the Classic Centre Museum in Stuttgart.

Regards

Mike

Hi Mike, to be honest I havenīt been down town for a couple of years, so I couldnít tell you.
But for your next visit in Munich, this could be an interesting place to go.
https://www.bmwgroup-classic.com/en/building.html
I have not been there, since they moved into their new (old) building, but I have seen a lot of the historic cars including an old aero plan engine in their old building, because this was very close to my office desk. 


Kind Regards
Achim

Offline BlueRock

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #200 on: August 26, 2017, 12:56:20 AM »
Inspiring work Mike!

Online Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #201 on: September 02, 2017, 08:42:21 PM »

Just a quick update on progress.

There we see one of the two stage superchargers mounted onto the finished crankcase.



The blower looks huge and completely dominates the crankcase. The cylinder blocks will be the next stage in this build.

Stay tuned

Mike
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Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #202 on: September 02, 2017, 10:26:59 PM »

Mike, I wish I had the words to give you a worthy compliment but I am speechless looking at your work.

Thomas

Online steamer

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #203 on: September 02, 2017, 10:45:15 PM »
That looks awesome Mike!!!!

Dave

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Online b.lindsey

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #204 on: September 02, 2017, 11:20:37 PM »
Totally awesome!!! Great picture too Mike.

Bill

Offline Art K

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #205 on: September 03, 2017, 01:11:23 AM »
Mike,
Just checking in, those assembled crankcases look great. Just as an aside, I think my first multi cylinder when I decide what that is will have significantly fewer oil pumps. :mischief:
Art
"The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you" B.B. King

Online Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #206 on: September 03, 2017, 09:10:08 AM »
Art,

I totally agree with you on the number of oil pumps. Most folk just use one big oil pump in the oil pan (sump).

However, technical complexity and high performance engines are so much part of the Mercedes Benz DNA, they will do whatever it takes to gain 1/2% more performance over their competitors. It was true for the  'Silver Arrows' Grand Prix cars back in the 1930's and it remains true with today's F1 race cars, nearly eighty years later

Watch today's F1 race from Monza if you can and you may see what I mean.

Bill, did you notice the all time record for people on-line was broken last night. Well done.

Mike
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 11:57:13 AM by Vixen »
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Offline mikemill

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #207 on: September 03, 2017, 11:37:14 AM »
Mike
Your work is exquisite, I thought the chap who built the ľ scale Merlin some 30 years ago set the standard for model IC engines, but I think you are going to surpass that with your Merc.
Could you explain the process of getting that lovely matt finish on the ali.
Thanks

Mike

Online Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #208 on: September 03, 2017, 03:14:02 PM »
Mike,

We all build our engines to the best of our individual abilities. We do it to satisfy our own creative instincts, and  that's all that really matters. Barrington (Barry) Hares is (was) in a class of his own. His RR Merlin was exceptional, his next engine, a RR Eagle was even finer still.

I use are several techniques to surface finish aluminium parts.

Mostly I use Scotchbright discs mounted in the Dremel to lightly frost machined surfaces, it polishes out and quickly removes any machine tool marks leaving a pleasing frosted finish.

For simulating castings, I use a grit blasting cabinet and a fine Alumina sand media. You can adjust the finished texture with different grades of media. The surface texture will be granular and the colour of the aluminium will darken with time, as the surface slowly oxidises. I mask off those machined surfaces that do not require the sand blast treatment, with painters masking tape.

Before final assembly, I often chemically etch the surfaces with 'Alubrite'. It is a cocktail of strong acids which imparts a very durable pearl-like finish. A bit like an anodised finish but without the need for electricity.

I never polish or buff the surface to a mirror finish. To my mind,  a mirror finish detracts from rather than adds something to a scale model engine.

Hope this helps

Mike


« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 03:23:36 PM by Vixen »
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Online Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #209 on: September 08, 2017, 06:15:43 PM »
Part 11  The Cylinder Blocks

The cylinder blocks are going to be the next items to make. They will add substance to the whole engine so that itís overall size and shape can be appreciated. Like everything on this engine, the cylinder blocks will be far from easy and straight forward to design and manufacture.

Mercedes Benz were well experienced in the design and manufacture of lightweight welded cylinders blocks for aero engines, dating back to the first world war. Although separate cylinder engines may have lacked the rigidity of the cast block engine as used by their arch rival Auto Union, welded cylinders were used in all the Mercedes Silver Arrows Grand Prix cars built during the 1930ís.

A similar construction was used on all the MB race engines of that period, from the W125 straight 8 of 5.6 litres to the diminutive W165 V8 of only 1.5 litres. This welded cylinder block construction was even carried through and used on the first of the W196 cars driven by Stirling Moss and Fangio in the 1950's. Later cars had cast blocks.

Cast steel cylinder heads were directly welded to individual cylinders The individual cylinders and their non detachable heads were then welded to a substantial base plate, two cam shaft plates were added to join the heads together. The water jacket was then formed by welding thin pressed steel stampings over all the cylinders. The cylinders were bored to size when all the welding was complete, the distortion due to all that hot work must have been considerable.


This is a modern full size recreation of one of the all-welded cylinder blocks for the 5.6 litre W125 straight eight Grand Prix engine of 1935. What an incredable feat of welding. Photo is curtesy of Crossthwaite and Gardner


There are the pattern and casting for one of the four valve cylinder heads for the W125 engine. Photo is curtesy of Crossthwaite and Gardner

I briefly considered a similar welded construction but quickly realised my lack of welding ability would not lead to successful 1/3 scale cylinder blocks. I started on a welding refresher course but did not succeed in getting past step 1.



I therefore completely redesigned the cylinder blocks so that they could be machined rather than welded. The challenge was to create the external appearance of the welded cylinders while providing the necessary water jacket and cylinder head cooling passages. The four cylinder heads and water ways would be machined from a single block of aluminiuim The four cylinders would then screw into the heads sealing a separate machined water jacket in place.

A start was made on the water jacket. A 8" x 2" x 1.5" aluminium billet was secured in the mill vice and the inside of the water jacket was milled out. The outside profile was also roughed out, leaving a thin 2 mm wall to the water jacket. A lot more work would be required at a later stage,  to create the corrugations on the outside, to resemble those of the welded water jacket.





The water jacket was flipped over so that the cylinder details could be machined into the base flange.





The outline of the base flange was then profiled and all the mounting bolt holes drilled.




Here the  water jackets are offered up to the embryo cylinder heads to check for fit.




I will conclude the water jacket machining saga in the next installment from Vixen's Den

Stay tuned

Mike


« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 07:59:31 PM by Vixen »
It is the journey that matters, not the destination