Author Topic: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker  (Read 15506 times)

Offline Chipmaster

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Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« on: July 10, 2015, 08:03:10 AM »
Last year I obtained some old castings and remnants of the plans for an Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' inverted flame gulper engine. This can still be seen on the Alyn Foundry website even though the business closed long ago http://www.alynfoundry.co.uk/ (Look at the 'Coming soon' section). The CHUK engine is similar to the Plank flame licker engine in both design and size, fortunately, a friend has a collection of flame gulper engines which includes engines made by Plank. Being able to examine his engines was very useful as I learnt how to make my engine. Having incomplete plans and no example of an inverted CHUK to refer to meant that I improvised some parts of the engine. Machining the castings were straightforward operations except for one which was rather awkward to hold. However, accuracy and a good piston to cylinder fit is essential for this type of engine, a lot of lapping was required here also much lapping of the shutter and diaphragm valves.
Unfortunately I forgot to take a photo of the set of castings before I started and I didn't do this build log as I went along because I wasn't confident it would work or whether I'd complete it in a reasonable time because of other larger model engine projects.
So here's a picture of  the finished engine then I'll follow with pictures of building it.

Andy



51 Flame Gulper engine - Alyn Foundry Inverted CHUK
by Andy, on Flickr

Machining the top of the base,

1 Machining the profile of the base casting by Andy, on Flickr


Cylinder mounting flange - a diaphragm and spring will reside in here and the exhaust exits through the hole in the centre.
2 The cylinder sits on this flange . by Andy, on Flickr
Underside of the base,

3 Underside of the base by Andy, on Flickr
Bottom of the cylinder,

4 Bottom of the cylinder by Andy, on Flickr

The cylinder stayed in the four jaw chuck for machining the bore and I decided the external fins might as well be concentric for further operations down the line...
5 Boring out the cylinder by Andy, on Flickr
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 06:14:14 PM by Chipmaster »

Online Jo

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 08:18:09 AM »
8) Nice Engine

Alyn didn't make many casting sets, you were lucky to get that one. Do you know of anyone with the other two in the CHUK range.

Was that Cast Iron as gritty as it looked in one of those photos?

Jo

P.S. In case people had not seen the CHUK family I have attached the Alyn Broadsheet which details all of them ;)
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Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 08:44:07 AM »
Good morning Jo,
thanks for adding the Alyn Foundry broadsheet. I haven't seen any other CHUK engines and I have been told that not many Chuks were cast and the Inverted were less than a handful, not even in double figures! Perhaps going public on MEM will encourage other Chuks to come out. I am glad that I made the engine, it didn't cost much and it feels even better when you see how much genuine Plank flame licker engines fetched in recent sales!!
As you noticed those particular castings were gritty but once that was out of the way there were no problems.

Andy
 

Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 08:54:09 AM »
Removing the cylinder from the fixed steady. This shows the top end of the cylinder machined for the fixed steady fingers


6 Removing the cylinder from the fixed steady
by Andy, on Flickr


7 Cylinder sitting of the base
by Andy, on Flickr

A ridge had to be machined on the bottom of the cylinder which will be lapped later on for a diaphragm valve that will seal against it. The diaphragm and its spring will fit inside the corresponding recess in the base


8 Cylinder base with a ridge
by Andy, on Flickr
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 10:24:33 AM by Chipmaster »

Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 10:15:09 AM »
Milling the port face, this surface will be lapped flat for the Shutter Valve (ex Stanley knife blade) to open and close the port.

9 Milling the inlet port face
by AGB engines, on Flickr

Crankshaft support casting (couldn't think of a better title). This caused a bit of head scratching working out the best way to machine the casting to register with the top of the cylinder. I milled the central area of the casting flat and drilled it so that it could be attached to a mandrel held in a three jaw chuck.



10 Crankshaft support casting
by AGB engines, on Flickr


11 Crankshaft support casting
by AGB engines, on Flickr



12 Crankshaft support casting
by AGB engines, on Flickr



When I was happy with the fit on the cylinder (which I could check with this set up) I went in with a small tool  to cut through the casting and separate it from the mandrel.
13 Crankshaft support casting
by AGB engines, on Flickr

The tool can be seen breaking through in this picture



14 Crankshaft support casting - lathe tool just breaking through
by AGB engines, on Flickr

So far so good.


15 Base, cylinder and crankshaft support.
by AGB engines, on Flickr



16 Base, cylinder and crankshaft support
by AGB engines, on Flickr
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 10:26:53 AM by Chipmaster »

Online Jo

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2015, 10:45:51 AM »
I am beginning to feel the need to make one of these. So that must be an excuse for another set of castings  :naughty:

Did you finish marking up the drawings? I am assuming they are as "good" as the other Alyn Foundry drawings I have, where they do not show the dimensions of the casting only the machining needed  :disappointed:.

Jo
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Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2015, 12:38:34 PM »
Hi Jo,

no I just made do with them as they were, referred to my friends Plank engine and made things up as I went along.

Andy

Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2015, 06:32:52 PM »
This is the inlet port, each end was drilled through with a 1/4" drill and the slot milled out using a 3/16" end mill.



18 Milled Intake port viewed from inside the cylinder
by Andy, on Flickr

And a poor photo from the other side.

19 Milled Intake port.
by Andy, on Flickr

I milled away the base until it was flush with the intake port, I thought that would help to get a burner and flame in close to the inlet port.


20 Milling the base so that it lines up with the intake port.
by Andy, on Flickr

The two ball bearings that support the crankshaft would be fitted in this piece which started out as a 2" diameter cast iron bar.
21 Main bearing housing
by Andy, on Flickr

Machined ready for the ball races.


24 Main bearing housing
by Andy, on Flickr

Bolted together and flywheel fitted.

26 Flywheel mounted on crankshaft
by Andy, on Flickr

The cylinder after a couple of hours lapping.


27 The cylinder bore after lappiing
by Andy, on Flickr

Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2015, 06:41:32 AM »
The diaphragm and piston were next. The diaphragm or flap valve specified was 0.25" shim formed into a regular octagon 40mm across the flats. As I could only obtain shim from a roll I parted off a cast iron disc 25 thou thick from the cast iron bar used to make the main bearing housing and the piston.


28
by Andy, on Flickr

Cylinder, piston and diaphragm or flap valve.

29 Cylinder, piston and diaphragm.
by Andy, on Flickr

Lapping the diaphragm.

39 Lapping the cast iron diaphragm or flap valve.
by Andy, on Flickr

Diaphragm / Flap valve - edges ground to a regular octagon 40mm across the flats. This seals against the lapped ridge on the base of the cylinder to maintain a vacuum on the power stroke. The valve is octagon shaped so the exhaust gas can pass around the valve as it is located in a recess.

41 Lapped cast iron diaphragm with the edges ground to an octagonal shape.
by Andy, on Flickr

« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 07:36:04 AM by Chipmaster »

Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2015, 07:01:00 AM »
Crank web, piston yoke, connecting rod and cam.
The crank web and cam were iron castings, the piston yoke and connecting rod used up stuff from my scrap box.

Drilling crank web for the crank pin.

31 Making the crank web
by Andy, on Flickr

Crank web

33 Trial assembly
by Andy, on Flickr

Piston yoke - machined using a slitting saw, drill and reamer whilst mounted on the toolpost.

30 Making the yoke that will hold the gudgeon pin
by Andy, on Flickr

Piston yoke fitted to the piston.

35 Yoke screwed inside the piston.
by Andy, on Flickr

Connecting rod.

36 Machining the connecting rod
by Andy, on Flickr

Trial assembly.

37 Connecting rod fitted.
by Andy, on Flickr

The profile of cast iron cam was machined by offsetting it in a four jaw chuck.

38 Machining the cam
by Andy, on Flickr


40 The finished cam
by Andy, on Flickr

Online Jo

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2015, 07:31:12 AM »
That crankshaft support casting looked like fun to mount up for machining but over all the parts don't look too difficult.

Jo
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Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2015, 07:47:27 AM »
Yes that was the only awkward part, the engine is so simple it is a great pity the model wasn't more popular.
Not many more pictures of the build to post then some videos of the engine running.

Andy
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 05:54:35 PM by Chipmaster »

Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2015, 08:26:20 AM »
I had to improvise the cam follower, pushrod and shutter valve. I know what I made is crude but it has proved to be effective. I milled a flat on the crankshaft support casting and bolted my cam following/pushrod apparatus to it.




To control or keep the cam follower wheel in the same plane as the cam a flat on the end of the brass collar above the spring acts as a guide against the flat steel bar.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/uaCAt2]


Almost finished
[url=https://flic.kr/p/v7tFVV]


The shutter valve is a Stanley knife blade, ground to shape with a boss attached with silver solder followed by yet more lapping. Lapping was a feature of this engine build. I find playing audio books on my workshop iPod player helps relieve the tedium.

 [url=https://flic.kr/p/uPTvBh]


The lapped side of the shutter valve.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/uQ2zJ8]


I arranged the shutter valve mounting so that it floated on the end of the pushrod rather like the slide valve of a steam engine. The vacuum within the cylinder pulls the shutter against the port face so I just had to adjust and time the opening of the shutter. Here is a picture of a lashed up burner, it's a brass bar with a line of holes long enough for the flame to cover the intake port.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/v6YukL]


As the piston ascends the flame is drawn in through the inlet port, the shutter closes the port as the gas burns inside the cylinder hence atmospheric pressure pushes the piston back down the bore. Excess pressure at the end of the cycle as the piston descends is released via the lightly sprung diaphragm/flap valve across the bottom of the cylinder. I found that if pressure wasn't released via the diaphragm then it would blow past the shutter valve and tended to blow the flame out.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 05:48:51 AM by Chipmaster »

Online Jo

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2015, 08:35:05 AM »
I like the use of the Stanley blade  8)

 :facepalm: You now have me looking at atmospheric engine casting sets. I noted that Polly Wobbles does a set for the Stockport engine that looks interesting  :naughty:.

Looking forward to the video  8)

Jo
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Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2015, 12:47:06 PM »
Hi Jo, I wasn't aware of the Stockport engine so I've just looked it up in Polly Models catalogue and there is a video of one on Youtube. I'm very taken with the model, so much so that I feel drawn towards buying the kit. Now look what you've done!

i'll post the videos of my Chuk when using my pc later this afternoon.

Andy
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 02:37:03 PM by Chipmaster »

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2015, 01:12:30 PM »
Look forward to your video Andy.

I seem to recall that at the time the Stockport was published I had decided it could all be fabricated and one with a 9" flywheel would look so much better :LittleDevil:

J

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2015, 02:00:03 PM »
one with a 9" flywheel would look so much better :LittleDevil:

Hi Jason, you could save time by doubling the size that would let you use the off the shelf R&B flywheel which already has 5 curved spokes ;)

And we would also expect you to do yours as the original gas engine  8)

Jo
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Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2015, 02:05:14 PM »
Thanks for that info Jason, According to the Polly Models catalogue the Stockport engine featured in Model Engineer from June 2009 et seq. I haven't had Model Engineer for years so I'll have to look out for copies of the articles.

Andy

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2015, 02:05:24 PM »
Very interesting engine Andy and you did a wonderful job on the pictures. I too am looking forward to the video.

Bill

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2015, 07:41:57 PM »
one with a 9" flywheel would look so much better :LittleDevil:

Hi Jason, you could save time by doubling the size that would let you use the off the shelf R&B flywheel which already has 5 curved spokes ;)

And we would also expect you to do yours as the original gas engine  8)

Jo

Could not only save time but a lot of money if I did not use the 12" R&B flywheel but instead used a 9" R&B flywheel which would have the additional benifit of saving me having to buy a bigger lathe :Lol: Spokes are not flat anyway.

I've just had a flick through the mags and could definately all be fabricated, there are only two castings in the kit anyway, one is the flywheel which could be machined from solid or done with the sandwich method I used on the E&A. The flared base casting could be cut from a billet or iron or steel and the 4 lugs fitted in a number of different ways.

J

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2015, 07:51:41 PM »
Could not only save time but a lot of money if I did not use the 12" R&B flywheel but instead used a 9" R&B flywheel which would have the additional benifit of saving me having to buy a bigger lathe :Lol: Spokes are not flat anyway.

 :headscratch: Both additional R&B flywheels are the same price and as for the capability of your tools I am sure you are satisfied  :mischief:

The single view of the original engine did not show what profile the spokes are I have yet to see an original engine where the spoke are square section like AM made :ShakeHead:

Jo
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Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2015, 08:37:40 PM »
During its initial runs as I experimented with the timing, the engine's diaphragm or flap valve made characteristic quacking/farting type noises that caused a lot of amusement. The inverted engine exhausts into the cavity of the base which had to be positioned to allow an exit route for the exhaust. So before painting I fitted a vertical exhaust pipe which quietened the engine considerably and the base of the engine now sits on a flat surface. The black paint is Halfords engine enamel and the cylinder was sprayed with Thermacure Mojave Red High Temperature Stove Spray Paint which withstands 650 degrees. Both paints have been excellent.



[url=https://flic.kr/p/v5ambo]


Here's a video of the finished engine running.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs13yEkIYzc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs13yEkIYzc</a>

and a video of it in slow motion,
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikHut-czuek" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikHut-czuek</a>

plus a string of videos taken as I experimented with the timing, flame position and flap valve spring strength, you'll hear the quacking/farting type noises at various stages!
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS0OZdqT8Lk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS0OZdqT8Lk</a>

Finally here's a video of my friends Plank flame gulper that inspired me.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6NSGp6_BNs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6NSGp6_BNs</a>

Andy
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 10:03:45 PM by Chipmaster »

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2015, 09:01:57 PM »
That runs rather well :)

On the first video will it start straight away like that from cold or do you have to flick it over a few times to bring the engine upto temperature?

J

Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2015, 09:11:40 PM »
Yes it usually takes a few attempts to get it running from cold, sometimes it will just oscillate backwards and forwards if you're lucky. However this afternoon it started first time, must be helped by the heat wave.

Andy

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2015, 10:57:50 PM »
Great videos Andy. Nicely finished too. Thanks so much for sharing the log, pics, and vids!!

Bill

Online Jo

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2015, 07:35:24 AM »
 8) Nice

I was going to ask if the paint needed to be high temperature but you beat me to it.

Jo
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Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2015, 08:35:20 AM »
Here is a video of my friends Carette flame gulper which I include because it demonstrates the function of the diaphragm or flap valve at the end of the cylinder.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSWo9RM4ilA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSWo9RM4ilA</a>

Andy

Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2015, 07:48:53 PM »
Dear Jo.

Chipmaster brought your website to my attention some weeks ago, it's a great shame the Internet was in it's infancy when I was trading.

I felt I must join and take minor issue with a couple of your comments.

The first being about the drawings. Why would you feel the need to fully dimension a perfectly shaped casting? I prided myself on the scale models I produced. They were spot on, no lumps of iron that had to be given shape and form. One customer remarked about the Gardner, " you could send it anywhere in the world and it would still look like a Gardner !! "

In this wonderful computer age it's easy to " knock out " a drawing, but back then they cost a small fortune. I had them done as cheaply as possible to be able to pass on those savings to my customers.

Your other comment made me smile, " Alyn didn't make many casting sets. " Over 800 kits sold to all major continents. Or did you mean the Chuk model range ?

There are so many myths floating about Alyn Foundry it's time to put the record straight. Feel free to ask.

With the closure of the last local traditional " Green sand moulding " Iron foundry and my own health in tatters I decided to close after 25 years trading. I still get to talk to old customers and the helpline is still open. I have even helped modellers building " rival" stuff !!

Andy has made a fine job of his Inverted Chuk. He brought it over for me to see a few weeks back !!

This is the very first Chuk prototype I built some years ago now, running on a large Cigarette lighter.

 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S13wymzV0po" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S13wymzV0po</a>

Cheers Graham.

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2015, 08:09:48 PM »
Hello Graham, good to see you here.

I wonder if you could clear up a query for me, I was talking to a chap who has built most of your engines at the Guildford show and he showed me details of an Allman engine which he said was from you. However this was not like the IF Allman with its twin A frame but more like the one offered by Debolt (which I have a casting set on its way to me) with a round base and cylinder bolted half way up the side of a cast crank support. So did you do two Allman engines or just the IF Allman and he is getting confused.

Have to agree with you very few engines that I have made have the castings dimensioned, its just the machined surfaces and where to put the holes. Bit of a pain for those like me who like to scratch build to other scales but not needed with a good casting.

Thanks, Jason

Online Jo

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2015, 08:22:25 PM »
Hi Graham,

The first being about the drawings. Why would you feel the need to fully dimension a perfectly shaped casting? I prided myself on the scale models I produced.

Because when the castings are no longer available then all those missing dimensions need to be reinvented if the engine design is to live on.

The friend of mine Jason is referring to is Ron Hankins who you no doubt remember as his son redrew the other Allman engine.

As for numbers only 5 of the engine Andy made would be considered to be a very small batch by most foundry runs (the same number we are planning for the 1/4 scale Otto Langens amongst friends 8))  and 29 sets of the Retlas is not many either. Other engines like the Gardner, Robinson and the Chippy engine are much more numerous and regularly turn up on Fleabay. 

The real question is: do the patterns still exist and the drawings?

Jo

P.S. Did I mention how much I enjoy engines that go quack ? The kids love them ;D
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Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2015, 08:53:11 PM »
Dear Jason and Jo.

I'll do a two in one !!

Yes there were two Allman engines, the first was known as the " A&T " short for Allman and Thompson and the IF Allman followed on later. Neither were popular, the A&T being so big that until the influx of cheap Chinese tooling very few could machine it !! The Retlas was a prime example, I sold more of them at the close of business than at the start.

Jo. I had very good relations with the two Foundries I used, after all 25 years is a long time, they would do me a one off if asked !! Near the end of trading my father in law and I used to go into the foundry on a Saturday morning and mould what was needed ourselves, such was the trust that had developed.

As to the patterns, yes, all primary wooden, double shrinkage masters are in my possession. We made Aluminium masters from these for longevity. Unfortunately 5 plates were stolen from the foundry just before it closed and I was unable to get any monetary compensation.   The Gardner kit is now available from the Anson Engine museum, this was a little gift from me to the curator Geoff Challinor to help raise funds for it's upkeep. It was Geoff's engine that I scaled way back in 1990 and yes, I was the patternmaker too !!

Cheers Graham. 

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2015, 08:57:51 PM »
Thanks Graham, that clears it up. I don't ever recall seeing the A&T on your website, just the IF.

I 'm just about to send you a personal message.

J

Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Alyn Foundry 'CHUK' Flame Gulper / Flame licker
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2017, 08:51:27 PM »

Company for the Alyn Foundry CHUK flame gulper engine I made in 2015 which is on the right.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxTpAofqbmE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxTpAofqbmE</a>

Andy

 

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