Author Topic: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale  (Read 40642 times)

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2016, 01:55:16 AM »
Nice work on the pumps and also interesting face plate work.
Folding drinking vouchers  :lolb:  I like that!

Dave

Offline jadge

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2016, 11:05:24 AM »
Thanks Dave, I like drinking vouchers too!

It took quite a while getting the faceplates set up. The ideal would be to do it on the flat and then lift the whole caboodle onto the spindle. But I've done myself a mischief in the past doing that, so it had to be set up in situ. Careful examination of the pictures will show that two faceplates are involved. The first set up uses the large (18") faceplate and involves removing the gap piece, which is a PITA. Or, to be precise, removing it is easy, it's the putting back and ensuring that the lathe still turns parallel that is a PITA. The other two set ups use the small (12") which doesn't need the gap piece removed.

As an aside here is a valve body, and the home made cutter used to undercut the seat for the inlet wing valve:



Note that this particular valve body is scrap due to a foul up when screwcutting the 3/8" BSP thread at the left end.  :embarassed:

Andrew
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 10:29:24 PM by jadge »

Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2016, 12:07:18 PM »
Hi Andrew, when I saw the photos of the face-plate set ups I thought that they must have been mostly done on the bench and then transferred to the lathe, but now that you say  they were done in situ, it must have taken enormous patience and dexterity!  If ever having more than two hands would have been useful....

Cheers, Dave

Offline jadge

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2016, 09:25:41 PM »
Dave: It's a big faceplate, 18" diameter. I've just weighed it, and the result was 23kg. So with the angle plate and clamps and casting probably nearer 30kg. That's a lot of weight to lift at chest height, and arms length, while trying to get the camlock pins lined up. When I did myself a mischief I had the flywheel casting on the faceplate. The faceplate plus machined flywheel weighs 33kg, so probably nearer 40kg with clamps and an unmachined flywheel. I should have known better, and paid the price. The trick to setting up in situ is to tighten the clamps enough to stop the whole falling apart but not so tight it doesn't move when tapped with a mallet. It's a trick I haven't mastered yet. The most important lesson is go and have a cup of tea if it isn't going right, before one gets cross and breaks something.  :'(

Andrew

Offline yogi

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2016, 08:48:54 AM »
Very impressive work you are doing Andrew!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
The water pumps are fantastic! Thanks for the update.  :cheers:

Offline scc

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2016, 02:11:24 PM »
Excellent work as usual Andrew.           Terry

Offline jadge

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2016, 10:09:56 PM »
Having previously mentioned a mischief here's the part that caused it, the engine flywheels. The final OD is a bit over 16" and the rim is 2" wide. The initial castings were quite rough with a lot of flash and a slight mismatch between the two halves during casting, resulting in a lot of metal on the inside of the rim needing to be removed to give a reasonable surface. Having started with a file I quickly reverted to angle grinders, flap wheels and the coarsest bastard files I could find. Even so it took many hours to clean up the castings. The final task before machining was to slather the castings with U-Pol and then sand most of it off again.

To simplify setting up the castings on the large faceplate I did it with faceplate resting on a wooden board on the lathe bed and then lifted the whole assembly onto the spindle. That's when I did the mischief. It was a very odd, rather unpleasant sensation. A bit like cramp in my arms, but without the intense pain. I couldn't move my arms properly, like a sort of paralysis with commands being sent but not being obeyed.  :(

Here is the casting on the faceplate, on the spindle:



It is normally regarded as a bad thing to clamp flywheels using the spokes, as they can get broken. However a close look will show four steel pillars bolted to the faceplate. Two of these are in the junction of a spoke and the rim. These provide the drive from the faceplate to the casting. The other two pillars are on the inside of the rim and locate the flywheel radially. So all the clamps are doing is stopping the casting falling off the faceplate. They're not providing the drivng force, so don't need to be done up tight.

Although the casting was a bit rough it machined beautifully, with no hard spots or inclusions. There was a lot of metal to take off the width and diameter of the rim. Here are some chips flying:



Note the lefthand boring bar in the 'wrong' side of the toolpost in order to reach the outside of the rim. Machining was done at the slowest speed of 40rpm, which equates to about 170fpm. For roughing DOC was 40 thou and feed 10 thou/rev.

I had intended to use the hydraulic copy unit to machine the crowning on the rim. But no way no how could I get the tool anywhere close to the right place. So I reverted to the method of machining two tapers at 2.5 and 5 on both sides and then blending with files and wet 'n' dry. The crowning is possibly rather more noticable than scale. It took a lot of filing and polishing so I wanted to make darn sure that the rivet counters noticed it!

The finished flywheels are shown in situ in the first photo in the first post of this thread.

Andrew
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 10:31:45 PM by jadge »

Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2016, 10:40:09 PM »
Monumental work, Andrew, and great to see the photos of this very considerable engine build.  Looked back at your first pics of the two engines part assembled, you have tackled some huge and daunting componentry in this project.   But I do wince a bit when you mention self-inflicted semi paralysis  , no one should suffer to quite that extent for their model engineering!  Could you perhaps rig up some sort of ceiling beam and mini electric hoist above the lathe spindle? or maybe adapt a Machine Mart type of cheap engine crane to assist with chucks and workpieces?
Dave

Offline Jo

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2016, 08:14:37 AM »
 :o that is a bit big to lift with the faceplate.

One of the reasons (the second time around) I decided to make a 2" model is that the parts are more manageable but I do find some of the tooling must have put on weight over the years  :-\

I see you needed to take the gap out  :facepalm: I am still hopeful that I will be able to get my ploughing drum on the face plate to turn without having to remove the gap piece

Jo
Usus est optimum magister

Offline jadge

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2016, 10:47:30 PM »
Thanks Dave! There's no room for an engine crane of any sort in the workshop, not even folded. Even the smaller machine tools are spreading into the hallway. But I have a longer term plan to fit some rails and a chain hoist over some of the machines. Some of the accessories like the capstan unit for the lathe, and dividing head and vertical head for the milling machines are pretty heavy, 50+kg, and they're on the limit of what I can lift. That's only going to get worse as time progresses. Eventually I'll need some mechanical assistance.

Taking the gap piece out is simple. Putting it back so the lathe still turns parallel is a lot more of a pain! When I first got the lathe I spent months bolting it down, adjusting the bolts and checking with an engineers level in an attempt to get the lathe turning parallel to better than 4 thou over a few inches at the headstock. Nothing worked. It was only when I turned the front axle journals a good 25" inches from the headstock that I fell in. The journals turned parallel to better than I could measure. So I wondered about the gap piece. I took it out and was scrupulous about cleaning it and the sequence of replacing it; low and behold I was turning parallel to within tenths at the headstock. You live and learn, although at the rate I'm going I'll be dead before I learn much more.

Andrew

Offline mal webber

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #70 on: August 03, 2016, 11:40:10 PM »
Hi Andrew really impressive work your doing , enjoying your thread and learning  the way you do your set ups ,I have  gap bed on my lathe nothing as big as yours  just a student 6", had trouble setting the lathe after refitting gap then i watched Keith fenner on youtube setting it up with a dti ,easy when your shown how.

Mal.

Offline jadge

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #71 on: August 05, 2016, 12:12:14 PM »
Mal: Thanks, I'm glad the descriptions have been of some use.

I'm not sure about using a DTI to set the gap piece? If it is refitted correctly I expect it go back accurately without the need for measurement. For my gap piece the procedure is to lightly fit the holding down bolts, making sure everything is clinically clean. Then fit the tapered alignment pin, tighten the small screw that pushes against the headstock, and finally tighten the hold down bolts. Of course the hole for the tapered pin is critical but this is machined by the manufacturer. I may be asking too much to expect the gap piece to be accurately replaceable, but it does seem to be the case on my lathe. However, I have a friend with a similar size far eastern lathe, and if I recall correctly the instructions basically say you're on your own once you've removed the gap piece.  :'(

Andrew

Offline scc

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2016, 05:50:27 PM »
Andrew!     You do surprise me.......all that equipment and you have to risk becoming a soprano when you lift stuff :facepalm:  I don't have much machinery, not much room either, but I DO have an engine crane. I'm 70 this year and and could not operate without it. I can JUST manage a back wheel onto the bench but it leaves me knackered.  The main snag with engine cranes is finding room under benches, etc for the outriggers.
Please take care.......I'm sure we all want to see your build continue with you in good health.
Best Wishes         Terry

Offline jadge

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #73 on: August 06, 2016, 10:28:35 AM »
Terry: There's absolutely no way I can get an engine crane into the workshop. At the moment I just have to think ahead and make sensible lifts, ensuring that the landing place is all set up in advance. However, I am already coming apart at the seams, and I'm not 60 yet,  so I know that in the future I will need assistance. I'm not too worried about squeaky voices; I already have a problem in that area. :embarassed: When I saw the consultant he put me off having the operation until it was absolutely necessary.

Andrew

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Burrell Single Crank Compound Traction Engines - 4" Scale
« Reply #74 on: August 06, 2016, 01:17:17 PM »
Andrew as you have no floor space for a crane think about an overhead beam with a beam trolly or a swing out arm for a "barrow hoist" located near the lathe and one gor the mill. I assume you have a bit of wall or ceiling space but that could be wishful thinking on my part :-\

I picked up a hosit and swing out are from Lidl a while ago for not much but have not got round to fixing it yet.