Author Topic: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.  (Read 153796 times)

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #585 on: December 18, 2016, 08:25:45 PM »
Great its all sort of working


Offline steamer

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #586 on: December 18, 2016, 08:43:15 PM »
Hey Willy,

8mm 20 bar air line.    but what is it rated at steam pressure?    150 psi steam is approximately 370 degrees F.   I suspect that hose will turn into a balloon and burst from the heat probably at something far below that pressure because of the temperature.

Standard copper will work much better.

Just be safe.

Dave   
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Online crueby

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #587 on: December 18, 2016, 07:39:45 PM »
The test looked great!

That was just the high pressure cylinder?

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #588 on: December 19, 2016, 03:20:28 AM »
[quote author=crueby
The test looked great!

That was just the high pressure cylinder?
Hi it was just the LP cylinder in fact as i have left out the HP valve to let the steam go through the HP exhaust port into the LP steam chest. I need to J  B Weld the HP valve  as i have done with the LP valve......so lots more "fitting" to do..............When i have adjusted the HP valve i can reconnect everything and put the engine back on the bed and trying it again under steam .....Thanks for the interest

Willy

Online crueby

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #589 on: December 19, 2016, 01:24:57 AM »
[quote author=crueby
The test looked great!

That was just the high pressure cylinder?
Hi it was just the LP cylinder in fact as i have left out the HP valve to let the steam go through the HP exhaust port into the LP steam chest. I need to J  B Weld the HP valve  as i have done with the LP valve......so lots more "fitting" to do..............When i have adjusted the HP valve i can reconnect everything and put the engine back on the bed and trying it again under steam .....Thanks for the interest

Willy
Its all very interesting - I know the general theory of the compound engines, but never seen one go together before.

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #590 on: December 19, 2016, 04:42:41 AM »

Quote from: crueby

Its all very interesting - I know the general theory of the compound engines, but never seen one go together before.
[/quote

Hi This is the maquette i made to work out the internals in Perspex. The green is the inlet ports and the red is the exhaust transfer port from the HP to the LP steam chest. the exhaust 'orange' from the LP cylinder then goes down both sides of the casting to the condenser. This engine has everything tucked away out of sight which makes for a very neat and unclutered engine block. A lot of the later compound engines look quite clumsy with all the external pipes and things, rather like an old fashioned 20's engine compared to a modern "blown" type that comleatly  fills the engine compartment.I have also used a different piece of reinforced clear hose rather than the black/yellow hose that works ok....

Offline steamer

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #591 on: December 19, 2016, 11:25:16 AM »
Willy if you're interested in the math of it, go to the back half of this presentation

http://www.neme-s.org/The%20Construction%20of%20the%20Steamlaunch.pdf

There is a dissertation on the pressure volume diagram for a cross compound, ( cranks at 90 degrees), but I also have the math for a Woolf compound as well.

The Woolf compound is actually simpler because  there is no need for a receiver between the HP and the LP.

I can find this book online if you like.

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline steamer

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #592 on: December 19, 2016, 11:27:51 AM »
PV diagram for a 2HP cross compound.
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #593 on: December 19, 2016, 01:32:03 PM »
[quote author=steamer link
PV diagram for a 2HP cross compound.

Thanks for that i will get my Mathematician friend to help me go through it and explain it to me.......
Willy...

Offline steamer

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #594 on: December 21, 2016, 01:51:24 AM »
Hey Willy,

Listen, I've been around steam all my life....it's a wonderful Terrible thing....it's amazing how much power and beauty it possess.

It also amazing how badly it can hurt you.    Braided poly water line isn't steam rated..even at 30 psi from that little pot boiler, it's going to hurt you.

I'm sure you have far more experience than others, but that can be problem for the newbe who doesn't know any better...

What's worse...is making it safe in the first place isn't any more difficult.    At the least..with 30psi max..put some silicone line on, such as is used on the Midwest boiler kits readily available at the hobby shops.   it's sold as fuel line and will stand up to the temperature much better

Better still, put some copper tube in.    It's not that much of a imposition, and it sets the proper example on a forum that condones safety first.

I leave that to you.

steamer

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"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #595 on: December 21, 2016, 02:06:19 AM »
Hey Willy,

Listen, I've been around steam all my life....it's a wonderful Terrible thing....it's amazing how much power and beauty it possess.

It also amazing how badly it can hurt you.    Braided poly water line isn't steam rated..even at 30 psi from that little pot boiler, it's going to hurt you.

I'm sure you have far more experience than others, but that can be problem for the newbe who doesn't know any better...

What's worse...is making it safe in the first place isn't any more difficult.    At the least..with 30psi max..put some silicone line on, such as is used on the Midwest boiler kits readily available at the hobby shops.   it's sold as fuel line and will stand up to the temperature much better

Better still, put some copper tube in.    It's not that much of a imposition, and it sets the proper example on a forum that condones safety first.

I leave that to you.

steamer

Moderator.

Thanks for that and I shall investigate alternative types of hose pipe over here, it was a temporary job that i bought on sunday when all the other shops were closed. I know this is no excuse and shall bear the safety aspects in mind in future.

I have had to make a new eccentric stub as the original one did not have a enough "throw". after measuring the amount of travel needed from the links already made i turned up a new one. I also left a stub on the side of it that has an adjustment screw on it to position it correctly. this will be removed before final assembly. Also when i was turning the rear portion I needed to return the sideways movement away from the chuck, and this was accomplished by resting a heavy piece of steel on the bed and clamping the tailstock in the correct position. I have not seen this before and think it could also be used as a form of indexing with different thicknesses of stock just dropped in place.

Online Jo

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #596 on: December 21, 2016, 09:27:59 AM »
Thanks for that and I shall investigate alternative types of hose pipe over here, it was a temporary job that i bought on sunday when all the other shops were closed. I know this is no excuse and shall bear the safety aspects in mind in future.

"Hose pipe" is not safe for transferring steam:
Flexible high pressure/temperature couplings suitable for pressurised steam are a highly specialised and expensive item that will not be common to come by - you will have to go to an industrial supplier. In contrast (non seamed) copper tube is easy to come by, cheap and suitable for transferring high pressure super heated steam. Do not use water pipe for steam pipe :hellno: it is not designed to transfer the high temperature and pressures found in steam applications.

Remember: When we test a boiler for safety not only the boiler is pressured tested but also all of its fittings and steam pipes. This not only for your safety but also for the safety of those you love and everyone else. Treat steam with respect - it doesn't care what it does to you.

Jo


Usus est optimum magister

Online crueby

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #597 on: December 21, 2016, 03:23:37 PM »
Suppliers like these guys do have hose that is meant for steam use, at least at the pressures that the G guage live steam locos use. Pricey for long lengths, but usually we only need a short piece.

http://www.thetraindepartment.com/live-steam-parts-accessories/hose-and-tubing/

This place is in US, sure there must be UK equivalents.

Online Jo

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #598 on: December 21, 2016, 03:53:10 PM »
Suppliers like these guys do have hose that is meant for steam use, at least at the pressures that the G guage live steam locos use. Pricey for long lengths, but usually we only need a short piece.

Yep: STEAM HOSE: Reinforced EPDM Rubber with high strength Nylon piles. Standard safety factor 10:1. Notice that those guys also do special steam hose couplings to safely hold it in place. If you want to go to a higher pressure then that type of steam hose has steel reinforcing 8)

Jo
Usus est optimum magister

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: The Beeleigh Mill, Woolf compound engine.Maldon, Essex.
« Reply #599 on: December 21, 2016, 05:47:34 PM »
Thanks for that and I shall investigate alternative types of hose pipe over here, it was a temporary job that i bought on sunday when all the other shops were closed. I know this is no excuse and shall bear the safety aspects in mind in future.

"Hose pipe" is not safe for transferring steam:
Flexible high pressure/temperature couplings suitable for pressurised steam are a highly specialised and expensive item that will not be common to come by - you will have to go to an industrial supplier. In contrast (non seamed) copper tube is easy to come by, cheap and suitable for transferring high pressure super heated steam. Do not use water pipe for steam pipe :hellno: it is not designed to transfer the high temperature and pressures found in steam applications.
Remember: When we test a boiler for safety not only the boiler is pressured tested but also all of its fittings and steam pipes. This not only for your safety but also for the safety of those you love and everyone else. Treat steam with respect - it doesn't care what it does to you.

Jo



Hi Jo ,thanks for this i will repost this so other people will see it